UK Online Porn Age Verification

[Inverted]

It's amazing that the second biggest thing on our government's priority list after Brexit was banning porn. 

Really tackling all the serious issues.

[Honey Honey]

A survey by a children's charity found that 5% of 8 to 12 year olds have seen hardcore porn. 8 years old wtf. I think there was also another survey by the EU that found 40% of under 14's in Europe have felt disturbed by pornographic imagery they've seen online.

It's pretty critical that at least something is done. It's too easily available.

[Cicero]

Think I was 11 when I first discovered porn 

[CaaC (John)+]

Seen enough in my army days in Germany 1972 (porn) when I was single, we have our laptops on 'Virgin Safe Mode' against porn and any violence etc because we have grandsons, you cannot go into a porn site unless you have a Virgin code which I have and no one else. 

They should ban fucking Brexit and May, that is more annoying than bloody porn!!!!    

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, CaaC - John said:

Seen enough in my army days in Germany 1972 (porn) when I was single, we have our laptops on 'Virgin Safe Mode' against porn and any violence etc because we have grandsons, you cannot go into a porn site unless you have a Virgin code which I have and no one else. 

They should ban fucking Brexit and May, that is more annoying than bloody porn!!!!    

The challenge is that internet access is so easy to come by. On any electronic device. 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Harvsky said:

A survey by a children's charity found that 5% of 8 to 12 year olds have seen hardcore porn. 8 years old wtf. I think there was also another survey by the EU that found 40% of under 14's in Europe have felt disturbed by pornographic imagery they've seen online.

It's pretty critical that at least something is done. It's too easily available.

Less on the government more on the parents

[Harry]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

Less on the government more on the parents

If your 8 year old kid gets let into a strip club who's fault is it? Who should be responsible to prevent that happening? 

I agree with what you've said but i think everyone is failing, and with most kids using ipads for early schooling it's not straightforward to put the onus on the parents. 

[Azeem]

10 hours ago, Spike said:

Less on the government more on the parents

In today's world there isn't much parents can do, i got exposed to porn as soon as i got access to internet an ad came up while googling cracked games and that was my gateway to this beautiful world 

[nudge]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

If your 8 year old kid gets let into a strip club who's fault is it? Who should be responsible to prevent that happening? 

I agree with what you've said but i think everyone is failing, and with most kids using ipads for early schooling it's not straightforward to put the onus on the parents. 

I don't think it's a good comparison considering that strip clubs are establishments for purely adult entertainment and even then, they'd just check your id at the door to make sure you're not underage instead of keeping a database with every client's personal data and passport copies where you need to opt in for access and have no idea how it might be misused. The idea of having to get access cards from a newsagent without it being linked to your personal data might work, but keeping a database of who is watching porn is a big no-no for me and a huge privacy infringement. 

As for the role of parents - I realise that it's not easy to keep the children away from it, but at least to a certain age it's definitely a parents' responsibility primarily, in my opinion. An 8 year old shouldn't have an unrestricted unsupervised access to internet anyway nor should they be glued to their screens for hours and hours every day (hell I don't think there's any reason for a kid of that age to have their own smartphone/tablet in the first place) and parental blocks and filters exist for a reason. In principle I don't see it much different from parents blocking certain cable or sat channels with a passcode in the past. Sure, the scale of it is much bigger with internet now than it used to be with just TV and it's harder to keep it all in check but for me the focus of responsibility definitely lies on parents at least when it comes to very young children. Teenagers is a different thing altogether and I agree that it's a bit problematic how accessible it is but this suggested block won't work either as horny teenagers will always find a way to see tits regardless of any censorship; even just a simple free VPN connection will circumvent the block easily. 

[Azeem]

I rather have a text message sent on the parents/owners phone by the ISP that on X date porn etc was accessed or something like that 

[nudge]

7 minutes ago, Azeem said:

I rather have a text message sent on the parents/owners phone by the ISP that on X date porn etc was accessed or something like that 

Essentially the same in terms of being easy to circumvent to be honest, as a VPN will encrypt your traffic so the ISP won't even have a clue what sites and services you're accessing.

[Azeem]

11 minutes ago, nudge said:

Essentially the same in terms of being easy to circumvent to be honest, as a VPN will encrypt your traffic so the ISP won't even have a clue what sites and services you're accessing.

Send a message someone accessed a VPN

[Azeem]

When parents will get texts that VPN is accessed every now and than they will know something is wrong

[nudge]

2 minutes ago, Azeem said:

Send a message someone accessed a VPN 

 

Just now, Azeem said:

When parents will get texts that VPN is accessed every now and than they will know something is wrong

Doesn't sound very feasible to me as it's quite a bit of an overkill for the ISP to have to actively monitor all network connections all the time and keep track of all encrypted data packets and IP addresses and ports and whatnot related to certain VPN services providers in order to identify a VPN connection and then tie it back to the individual user. The costs would be enormous.

 

[Azeem]

51 minutes ago, nudge said:

 

Doesn't sound very feasible to me as it's quite a bit of an overkill for the ISP to have to actively monitor all network connections all the time and keep track of all encrypted data packets and IP addresses and ports and whatnot related to certain VPN services providers in order to identify a VPN connection and then tie it back to the individual user. The costs would be enormous.

 

Not all those who request for it

[Azeem]

On second thought keylogger might be a better option 

[nudge]

6 minutes ago, Azeem said:

On second thought keylogger might be a better option 

To be honest spying on my child (teenager?) with a keylogger or by any other means is surely not a path I would like to take I would have hated it as a teen and I think it would absolutely kill the trust in the parent-child relationship. Using filters and blocking certain pages so that the kid can't access it is one thing, snooping on them is a blatant violation of trust...

[Bluewolf]

2 hours ago, nudge said:

I don't think it's a good comparison considering that strip clubs are establishments for purely adult entertainment and even then, they'd just check your id at the door to make sure you're not underage instead of keeping a database with every client's personal data and passport copies where you need to opt in for access and have no idea how it might be misused. The idea of having to get access cards from a newsagent without it being linked to your personal data might work, but keeping a database of who is watching porn is a big no-no for me and a huge privacy infringement. 

As for the role of parents - I realise that it's not easy to keep the children away from it, but at least to a certain age it's definitely a parents' responsibility primarily, in my opinion. An 8 year old shouldn't have an unrestricted unsupervised access to internet anyway nor should they be glued to their screens for hours and hours every day (hell I don't think there's any reason for a kid of that age to have their own smartphone/tablet in the first place) and parental blocks and filters exist for a reason. In principle I don't see it much different from parents blocking certain cable or sat channels with a passcode in the past. Sure, the scale of it is much bigger with internet now than it used to be with just TV and it's harder to keep it all in check but for me the focus of responsibility definitely lies on parents at least when it comes to very young children. Teenagers is a different thing altogether and I agree that it's a bit problematic how accessible it is but this suggested block won't work either as horny teenagers will always find a way to see tits regardless of any censorship; even just a simple free VPN connection will circumvent the block easily. 

 

12 minutes ago, nudge said:

To be honest spying on my child (teenager?) with a keylogger or by any other means is surely not a path I would like to take I would have hated it as a teen and I think it would absolutely kill the trust in the parent-child relationship. Using filters and blocking certain pages so that the kid can't access it is one thing, snooping on them is a blatant violation of trust...

Difficult choices but agree with the trust/spying on the kids issue.... We were lucky with ours as phones and internet access were never really on the radar that much although they had messenger and with those sorts of things it was mostly all text related so a little easier to manage but yea, spying on the kids is a sure fire way of pushing them to resort to underhand tactics as they try to hide what they might be doing and then it becomes a battle of wills... something you can have comfortable control over when they around the 8-10 years bracket but after that you have to start taking courses in covert operations to keep them reigned in... just never going to happen.. by the time they are in their teens you will be getting the right run around as they turn into veterans and just keep mugging you over all the time..  for them it's the same as going through their diary.. a big no no.. 

Unlike when mine were young they could only really use the computer for a small amount of time and they had to share the one we had set up in the back room so although we never poked our noses in what they were writing we could see what they were up to for example.. with access to the internet on your phone they can just disappear off in their room and be on there all day and late into the night now.. impossible to control, Access to it is the way to go although it must be difficult to get the balance right allowing adults in but keeping younger kids out... what would stop them paying someone older to pick up a card at the newsagents for example which would allow them to gain access to adult sites?? If you made it so that you had to provide very specific criteria like a passport or something along them lines then the issue of data protection rears it's ugly head again.. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

54 minutes ago, nudge said:

To be honest spying on my child (teenager?) with a keylogger or by any other means is surely not a path I would like to take I would have hated it as a teen and I think it would absolutely kill the trust in the parent-child relationship. Using filters and blocking certain pages so that the kid can't access it is one thing, snooping on them is a blatant violation of trust...

My dad used a key logger on us when we were kids and then internet was new and we got a virus on a computer (probably from some porn website).

But we knew more about computers, because he didn’t know a thing about them - fuck whichever of his friends told him about the keylogger solution - and knew the computer administrator password so we kept uninstalling it.

I think parenting kids on the internet should be easier for those of us who were kids before the internet was everywhere and remember life with it and then grew up with the internet as it became what it is today. Our parents had no idea what the internet could be like, we do.

But yeah, I’d use filters to block sites and not use a keylogger. It’d actually do something to stop them seeing what I don’t want to them to see, and it wouldn’t have them worried that I’m going to see the stupid shite they’ll google search or say to their friends on chats.

I think policing their internet use on smart phones is a lot more challenging though.

[True Blue]

Can't watch porn if you are not old enough in the UK? Wow what a harsh country to live in.

[nudge]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

 

Difficult choices but agree with the trust/spying on the kids issue.... We were lucky with ours as phones and internet access were never really on the radar that much although they had messenger and with those sorts of things it was mostly all text related so a little easier to manage but yea, spying on the kids is a sure fire way of pushing them to resort to underhand tactics as they try to hide what they might be doing and then it becomes a battle of wills... something you can have comfortable control over when they around the 8-10 years bracket but after that you have to start taking courses in covert operations to keep them reigned in... just never going to happen.. by the time they are in their teens you will be getting the right run around as they turn into veterans and just keep mugging you over all the time..  for them it's the same as going through their diary.. a big no no.. 

Unlike when mine were young they could only really use the computer for a small amount of time and they had to share the one we had set up in the back room so although we never poked our noses in what they were writing we could see what they were up to for example.. with access to the internet on your phone they can just disappear off in their room and be on there all day and late into the night now.. impossible to control, Access to it is the way to go although it must be difficult to get the balance right allowing adults in but keeping younger kids out... what would stop them paying someone older to pick up a card at the newsagents for example which would allow them to gain access to adult sites?? If you made it so that you had to provide very specific criteria like a passport or something along them lines then the issue of data protection rears it's ugly head again.. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

My dad used a key logger on us when we were kids and then internet was new and we got a virus on a computer (probably from some porn website).

But we knew more about computers, because he didn’t know a thing about them - fuck whichever of his friends told him about the keylogger solution - and knew the computer administrator password so we kept uninstalling it.

I think parenting kids on the internet should be easier for those of us who were kids before the internet was everywhere and remember life with it and then grew up with the internet as it became what it is today. Our parents had no idea what the internet could be like, we do.

But yeah, I’d use filters to block sites and not use a keylogger. It’d actually do something to stop them seeing what I don’t want to them to see, and it wouldn’t have them worried that I’m going to see the stupid shite they’ll google search or say to their friends on chats.

I think policing their internet use on smart phones is a lot more challenging though.

 

I mostly agree with both of you, especially with the internet use on smart phones being hard to monitor and control. That said, when would you consider it appropriate for a child to have their own smartphone in the first place? Surely not before they're at least 12-13 years old and only let them use family laptop/tablet for limited time during the day before that? At that age I would probably still use some filters and blocks and let them know that I'd be regularly monitoring their internet/phone use and whatnot but let's be honest, blocking all porn and other nsfw content is impossible and I'd even argue that restricting it completely makes it a forbidden fruit thus even more tempting and appealing for a young teen entering puberty. In all likelihood, any technical solution to it will be unsuccessful as teenagers will always find a way to get around it and hide it from you. 

[Viva la FCB+]

3 hours ago, nudge said:

To be honest spying on my child (teenager?) with a keylogger or by any other means is surely not a path I would like to take I would have hated it as a teen and I think it would absolutely kill the trust in the parent-child relationship. Using filters and blocking certain pages so that the kid can't access it is one thing, snooping on them is a blatant violation of trust...

This reminds me of that Black Mirror episode Arch Angel. Damn that show applies to so many things. Basically the story was as follows; a parent lost her child when she was very young and had a chip installed in her that was not only a gps but had a camera that would relay to basically an Ipad her mom kept and could watch anytime and see in real time or rewind and watch what she sees. Not only that but there was a parental filter in the chip that if turned on would blurr anything for the girl that would cause spikes in anxiety such as a dog barking or nudity or violence. I wont say too much but the kid was fucked up.

[nudge]

1 minute ago, Viva la FCB said:

This reminds me of that Black Mirror episode Arch Angel. Damn that show applies to so many things. Basically the story was as follows; a parent lost her child when she was very young and had a chip installed in her that was not only a gps but had a camera that would relay to basically an Ipad her mom kept and could watch anytime and see in real time or rewind and watch what she sees. Not only that but there was a parental filter in the chip that if turned on would blurr anything for the girl that would cause spikes in anxiety such as a dog barking or nudity or violence. I wont say too much but the kid was fucked up.

Gee I wonder why...  

[nudge]

I want to watch more of Black Mirror but that first episode with the pig mentally scarred me  

[Bluewolf]

6 minutes ago, nudge said:

 

 

I mostly agree with both of you, especially with the internet use on smart phones being hard to monitor and control. That said, when would you consider it appropriate for a child to have their own smartphone in the first place? Surely not before they're at least 12-13 years old and only let them use family laptop/tablet for limited time during the day before that? At that age I would probably still use some filters and blocks and let them know that I'd be regularly monitoring their internet/phone use and whatnot but let's be honest, blocking all porn and other nsfw content is impossible and I'd even argue that restricting it completely makes it a forbidden fruit thus even more tempting and appealing for a young teen entering puberty. In all likelihood, any technical solution to it will be unsuccessful as teenagers will always find a way to get around it and hide it from you. 

On one hand I will never get my head around the fact I see small kids with them while I am down the shops and out and about and to some degree I think it's lazy parenting that just keeps the children quiet. Giving them unfettered access to the world wide web with no control whatsoever can't be a good thing. On the other hand they are very useful to have if you want to keep in touch or they run into trouble for example when they are out with friends, they always have someone they can call, something we never had as kids.. if you wanted to call home you had to try and find a phone box somewhere that didn't have the cord ripped out and even then you had to have the right change on you.. funny enough in a related to the topic mention you always used to get loads of cards for adult related material like escorts and clubs etc pinned up all over them so even in them days you could stumble on stuff of an adult nature even then... 

If I was able to have any control at all I would probably not let them have a phone at a young age until they understood what is and is not acceptable use.. I would however give them a phone for emergencies if they went somewhere so I could keep tabs on them while they were out or they could call to let us know things were ok, that way I could check what they had been using it for etc if I felt something was wrong...

These days with saturation advertising and school friends getting the latest phones it's difficult to keep trying to be the sensible parent battling against a tide of modern life and technology... I think the government should shoulder a fair percentage of the blame here as well, can't just be lumping everything on to the parent all the time... I mean for example, when we were kids we had roughly 10-15 hours of kids tv spread over the entire week, that would include a weekend binge and then grabbing a couple of hours after school... someone, somewhere suddenly decided that it would be a good idea to have a cartoon network channel that runs 24 hours a day!! they are so busy thinking about the cash generation and viewing figures rather than if it's a healthy thing for kids to be doing, suddenly the parent has to shoulder the brunt of that decision making.. guess who is the 'out of touch' dinosaur when it's tv off and bed time... Morally speaking don't we have a duty to be doing the right things where we can or am I alone here??