Racism in Football

[Tommy]

The idiot already deleted his twitter account.

[Mel81x+]

On 15/10/2022 at 23:42, Tommy said:

The idiot already deleted his twitter account.

Just another vicious circle of how tech ignores this kind of garbage with zero repercussions but the minute their profits get hit then all of a sudden they'll have a solution to the problem. While I abhor the concept of doxing its warranted in this case. 

[Azeem]

 

[Spike]

Golden skull monkeys are cool

[Stan]

 

 

 

[Rucksackfranzose]

Extremely unfortunate choice of words in this tweet, since 41% of those with ethnic background is non-sense. Everyone has an ethnic background, only difference is that those, who form tthe ethnic majority have the ethni background of the ethnic majority in their respective country.

[Stan]

18 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Extremely unfortunate choice of words in this tweet, since 41% of those with ethnic background is non-sense. Everyone has an ethnic background, only difference is that those, who form tthe ethnic majority have the ethni background of the ethnic majority in their respective country.

Well that's an odd angle to take in any sense. Quite clear what 'ethnic background' means and is quite a common term. 

[Rucksackfranzose]

39 minutes ago, Stan said:

Well that's an odd angle to take in any sense. Quite clear what 'ethnic background' means and is quite a common term. 

Probably a cdase of lost in translation, since the term "ethnic background" would be considers vocal diarrhea at best and suggesting racism in the worst case in German, used in this context.

[MUFC]

Tony getting racial abuse on social media.

[Stan]

And so it continues...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64650310

Quote

 

Birmingham City say they are "appalled and saddened" by alleged racist abuse towards Blues captain Troy Deeney from the home end at St Andrew's.

The Championship side issued a statement saying Deeney and a number of Blues fans had reported hearing the slurs at the end of Tuesday's 2-0 defeat by Cardiff City.

Deeney, 34, joined his hometown club in 2021 and has made 53 Blues appearances.

"There is no room for racism in the game," said Birmingham's statement.

The club added the abuse had been identified as "coming from the home section of the Gil Merrick lower stand when players were leaving the field of play towards the tunnel".

Last month Blues goalkeeper Neil Etheridge reported racist abuse from opposition supporters during their FA Cup tie at Blackburn Rovers.

"Blues gives its full support to Troy and is appalled and saddened that yet again, one of our players is not safe from discrimination on the football pitch," Birmingham's statement added.

"This incident has been referred to the relevant authorities and the club will assist in their investigation."

BBC Sport has contacted West Midlands Police for comment.

 

 

[Michael]

On 19/08/2021 at 08:41, Dr. Gonzo said:

I guarantee you most people on Twitter are definitely from the first world & mostly from the “Anglosphere” - and the racism is proportional, I’m sure.

I don’t disagree that Twitter is a cesspool, but let’s not try to pin all the bad behavior on foreigners because that’s definitely not the case 

Hmm, interesting. I think that you are probably right when you say that most Twitter users are probably from the first world. But as a person who has always enjoyed travelling, my experience tends to somewhat support Spike's position on this. No doubt there is racism in the West, but there definitely seems to be a lot more racism in the developing world. I think that generally speaking, the more a populace is educated and the more interaction they have had with people of other cultures, the less likely they are to be racist. Of course there are racists here in the West, both educated and uneducated, but I believe that racism is much more prevalent in the developing world. Part of this could be due to the fact that I don't think that punishment for racist behaviour is as harsh as it is in the West. 

Comprehensive surveys have been undertaken about the issue of racism around the world. Peoples opinions and experiences were noted. Here are a couple of examples.

The first question posed in this survey was would you be comfortable living next to a neighbour of a different culture, ethnicity or race.

The following countries had the most people(of those surveyed) who were least comfortable living with such foreign neighbours and who would prefer not to have them as neighbours:

1- Libya 54%

2- Palestine 44%

3- India 43.6%

4- Thailand 39.8%

5- Lebanon 36.3%

6- Ecuador 34.5%

7- Yemen 34%

8- Turkey 33.8%

9- Malaysia 31.3%

10- Bahrain 31.1%

11- Philippines 30.6%

12- South Korea 29.6%

The next question was, were they either discriminated against or had they witnessed racial discrimination happen in their home country.

The following are the are the results:

1- Bahrain 85.7%

2- Lebanon 64.4%

3- India 64.3%

4- South Africa 61.8%

5- Philippines 49.1%

6- Pakistan 48.8%

7- Nigeria 42.5%

8- Algeria 41%

9- Hong Kong 40.4%

10- Egypt 39.7%

11- Russia 38.5%

12- Iraq 37.8%

There's not a Western European or North American country in sight in these rankings. Racism and discrimination obviously exist everywhere, but I do believe that it's more widespread in the developing world.

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, Michael said:

The following countries had the most people(of those surveyed) who were least comfortable living with such foreign neighbours and who would prefer not to have them as neighbours:

1- Libya 54%

2- Palestine 44%

3- India 43.6%

4- Thailand 39.8%

5- Lebanon 36.3%

6- Ecuador 34.5%

7- Yemen 34%

8- Turkey 33.8%

9- Malaysia 31.3%

10- Bahrain 31.1%

11- Philippines 30.6%

12- South Korea 29.6%

The next question was, were they either discriminated against or had they witnessed racial discrimination happen in their home country.

The following are the are the results:

1- Bahrain 85.7%

2- Lebanon 64.4%

3- India 64.3%

4- South Africa 61.8%

5- Philippines 49.1%

6- Pakistan 48.8%

7- Nigeria 42.5%

8- Algeria 41%

9- Hong Kong 40.4%

10- Egypt 39.7%

11- Russia 38.5%

12- Iraq 37.8%

There's not a Western European or North American country in sight in these rankings. Racism and discrimination obviously exist everywhere, but I do believe that it's more widespread in the developing world.

Do you have a link to this survey?

[Michael]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

Do you have a link to this survey?

Yes, but it will cost you. )

[Michael]

8 minutes ago, Stan said:

Do you have a link to this survey?

Most Racist Countries 2023 (worldpopulationreview.com)

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Michael said:

Most Racist Countries 2023 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Hmm. 

It classes them, as the title, as 'most racist countries in the world' but clarifies this point almost immediately as some kind of caveat

Quote

 

The two surveys cover different aspects of racism, but not racism directly – as the group points out, many people may not even know if they are racist.

The first survey was conducted by the Washington Post and broadly asked if people would like having people of other races as neighbours. Answers saying no were assumed to have some form of racial basis.

The second survey was more direct, asking whether respondents had seen or experienced racism. All answers that we not a direct “no not at all”, were considered as a check next to racism.

 

The other potential flaw is that only 61 countries were surveyed in one study, and only 78 in another survey. It's not even half of the world's countries. 

It's hard to see what other countries were surveyed other than a 'top 25'. Only from a quick look and going through some of the links on the page. Were Western European countries even surveyed? 

It's such a difficult and subjective topic to cover. It's rare you'll see any large volume of people admit they're racist. But I don't think the questions they ask point to 'being racist'. At least not by way of the definition of racism that we know or follow. Just because someone doesn't want to live next to a 'foreign neighbour' doesn't automatically make them racist. They might have a valid reason for doing so. But they're ticked on a checkbox as 'racist' because they said no. 

[Michael]

13 minutes ago, Stan said:

Hmm. 

It classes them, as the title, as 'most racist countries in the world' but clarifies this point almost immediately as some kind of caveat

The other potential flaw is that only 61 countries were surveyed in one study, and only 78 in another survey. It's not even half of the world's countries. 

It's hard to see what other countries were surveyed other than a 'top 25'. Only from a quick look and going through some of the links on the page. Were Western European countries even surveyed? 

It's such a difficult and subjective topic to cover. It's rare you'll see any large volume of people admit they're racist. But I don't think the questions they ask point to 'being racist'. At least not by way of the definition of racism that we know or follow. Just because someone doesn't want to live next to a 'foreign neighbour' doesn't automatically make them racist. They might have a valid reason for doing so. But they're ticked on a checkbox as 'racist' because they said no. 

I am sure that they would have surveyed countries from every region in the world. That would include Western European countries, otherwise it would be an absolutely misleading survey, which I doubt that it is. 

It can be difficult to cover, but not wanting to live next to a person of a different culture, ethnicity or race, I think was the actual question. I think they shortened it to not wanting to live next to a foreigner. However, either way, whether they didn't want to live next to a foreigner or a person because of their culture, ethnicity or race, it's all discriminatory at the very least. The percentage results here are also very high in some of these countries. Yes, some people do not admit they are racist. But with those who do have the confidence to admit that they are racist, it probably shows that they have a high degree of racism. 

I've just quickly googled another link about a survey done regarding the least racist countries. Most of the countries in the top 10 are Western European and the other two are Canada and New Zealand.

Least Racist Countries 2023 (worldpopulationreview.com)

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, Michael said:

I am sure that they would have surveyed countries from every region in the world. That would include Western European countries, otherwise it would be an absolutely misleading survey, which I doubt that it is. 

It can be difficult to cover, but not wanting to live next to a person of a different culture, ethnicity or race, I think was the actual question. I think they shortened it to not wanting to live next to a foreigner. However, either way, whether they didn't want to live next to a foreigner or a person because of their culture, ethnicity or race, it's all discriminatory at the very least. The percentage results here are also very high in some of these countries. Yes, some people do not admit they are racist. But with those who do have the confidence to admit that they are racist, it probably shows that they have a high degree of racism. 

I've just quickly googled another link about a survey done regarding the least racist countries. Most of the countries in the top 10 are Western European and the other two are Canada and New Zealand.

Least Racist Countries 2023 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Fair, lots of Western European countries.

But having said that, when you think about the amount of countries (61 or 78) it's relatively small. And only 85,000 people. 'Only' seems odd, but when you think about the populations of all the countries they've surveyed, that's relatively small, too.

The survey itself even acknowledges its limitations:

Quote

the survey question is a way of judging racial tolerance but, like many social science metrics, is indirect and imperfect.

The below, also doesn't seem right:

The first survey was conducted by the Washington Post and broadly asked if people would like having people of other races as neighbours. Answers saying no were assumed to have some form of racial basis.

The second survey was more direct, asking whether respondents had seen or experienced racism. All answers that we not a direct “no not at all”, were considered as a check next to racism.

So just because someone had witnessed/experienced racism, meant they were racist? That seems very counter-intuitive and misleading, and dare I say quite frankly incorrect. 

 

They also acknowledge that the sample sizes surveyed were not actually indicative of the whole country. And a lot of it can be anecdotal.

[nudge]

Another thing to consider is that quite a few countries in the "most racist" list have had ongoing internal or external conflicts in recent past or present with certain other nations or ethnic groups, so it's probably not surprising that it would strongly influence their preferences in terms of having neighbours of other race/nationality. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

15 minutes ago, nudge said:

Another thing to consider is that quite a few countries in the "most racist" list have had ongoing internal or external conflicts in recent past or present with certain other nations or ethnic groups, so it's probably not surprising that it would strongly influence their preferences in terms of having neighbours of other race/nationality. 

Yeah, if I were Yemeni I'd probably be so fucking angry at pretty much every country involved in that civil war. From the regional powers backing groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, and on the other side the Houthis... to the western countries brought into the Saudi coalition to that war. I think that's a natural reaction to a foreign backed rebellion movement to ousting a foreign backed puppet government & having your life torn apart by so many foreign powers having a power struggle and destroying your home with modern warfare & vile tactics like starvation and disease being used as a weapon of war.

Idk how they don't score higher than 34% tbh.

[nudge]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah, if I were Yemeni I'd probably be so fucking angry at pretty much every country involved in that civil war. From the regional powers backing groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, and on the other side the Houthis... to the western countries brought into the Saudi coalition to that war. I think that's a natural reaction to a foreign backed rebellion movement to ousting a foreign backed puppet government & having your life torn apart by so many foreign powers having a power struggle and destroying your home with modern warfare & vile tactics like starvation and disease being used as a weapon of war.

Idk how they don't score higher than 34% tbh.

Old data. 2013, to be precise. The other survey is from 2016. So it's already a bit outdated as it is, nevermind the questions about the methodology.

[Mel81x+]

What an interesting pile of rubbish. 

Here's a simpler break down.

• Imagine I found 10 countries that were recently at war with their neighbors out of 200 countries
• Then I took a survey in those 10 countries stating that I wanted to know if they liked their neighbors and if they wanted them as neighbors anymore
• But, this is the internet and surely there will be some backlash so for good measure and to make things legit I now go and add 5 countries that have had trouble 10 years prior to my data so as to not look like I have an agenda
• All of the sudden the really high numbers start to look like real statistics because of course the median gets shifted and you've got a data-set that is advantageous to click-bait
• Now, I have to of course talk about places that love their neighbors but my already burned mathematical wizardy tells me to not include all the countries I already did a survey in because god-forbid I find data in those countries to contradict my earlier data so I take the colored map and pick all the non-evaluated slots
• What you end up with is a skewed data-set that looks sort of real so folks at a cocktail party can have one of two conversations
  • Did you hear, we're #2 in the list of countries with the least racism. I mean I tell my maid who moved here from her country that she's a worthless bag of dirt every day but thats just me telling her to do her job surely I am not racist.
  • We're #2? But I didn't know I was supposed to let the guys who tried to break into my house and shoot my parents just have their way and of course invite them over for biscuits the next day because that's the Christian thing to do.

In the end its all circumstantial and contextual. Of course some things are black and white as night and day but to think that the report above is a clear indication of racism at its peak in the developing world is myopic at best. It's here for sure but not like what's being reported above.

 

[Michael]

6 hours ago, Stan said:

Fair, lots of Western European countries.

But having said that, when you think about the amount of countries (61 or 78) it's relatively small. And only 85,000 people. 'Only' seems odd, but when you think about the populations of all the countries they've surveyed, that's relatively small, too.

The survey itself even acknowledges its limitations:

The below, also doesn't seem right:

The first survey was conducted by the Washington Post and broadly asked if people would like having people of other races as neighbours. Answers saying no were assumed to have some form of racial basis.

The second survey was more direct, asking whether respondents had seen or experienced racism. All answers that we not a direct “no not at all”, were considered as a check next to racism.

So just because someone had witnessed/experienced racism, meant they were racist? That seems very counter-intuitive and misleading, and dare I say quite frankly incorrect. 

 

They also acknowledge that the sample sizes surveyed were not actually indicative of the whole country. And a lot of it can be anecdotal.

Well yeah, a survey of this scale is going to have its limitations. Yes, they've selected 78 countries, and I believe that we can make a general judgement of the results from these 78 countries. 85,000 people from these 78 countries, that's like 1,090 people surveyed per country. I believe it's enough to get a gist of what the general attitudes of people are in these countries. 

I think with the first survey, people saying that they wouldn't like people of other races as their neighbours, is showing a clear racial bias. I mean if a person isn't a racist or a bigot, why would they care what race their neighbour is?

As for the second survey, it's an indicator as to the prevalence of racism in their own respective countries. Of course it doesn't mean that they themselves are racist. I think it's just a measure of the racism levels in their own countries. The more racist incidents in life that a person encounters or witnesses, surely shows to some extent how racist his environment is.

Also, to be honest, the fact that we can see a trend of developed countries completely dominating the top 10 places in such surveys, this surely has to tell us something. We don't see any Western countries down as being some of the most racist in the world, nowhere near. It's the developing and third world countries that dominate the positions of being the most racist in these surveys.

 

[Michael]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah, if I were Yemeni I'd probably be so fucking angry at pretty much every country involved in that civil war. From the regional powers backing groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, and on the other side the Houthis... to the western countries brought into the Saudi coalition to that war. I think that's a natural reaction to a foreign backed rebellion movement to ousting a foreign backed puppet government & having your life torn apart by so many foreign powers having a power struggle and destroying your home with modern warfare & vile tactics like starvation and disease being used as a weapon of war.

Idk how they don't score higher than 34% tbh.

This survey isn't asking how they became racist, it's merely trying to establish if they are racist and if racism is widespread in their respective countries. If a lot of Yemenis are racist, then they are racist. There is never any real justification to be a racist. Just because Germany caused destruction and havoc during WW2, doesn't mean that it is ok to be xenophobic towards Germans. Because anyone with half a brain, knows that there are good and bad people in all societies. Nor should the Japanese be racist towards the Americans, despite the fact that the US dropped two nukes on their country. They have every right to hate the American government of the time, but not the average well meaning American.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Michael said:

Well yeah, a survey of this scale is going to have its limitations. Yes, they've selected 78 countries, and I believe that we can make a general judgement of the results from these 78 countries. 85,000 people from these 78 countries, that's like 1,090 people surveyed per country. I believe it's enough to get a gist of what the general attitudes of people are in these countries. 

I think with the first survey, people saying that they wouldn't like people of other races as their neighbours, is showing a clear racial bias. I mean if a person isn't a racist or a bigot, why would they care what race their neighbour is?

As for the second survey, it's an indicator as to the prevalence of racism in their own respective countries. Of course it doesn't mean that they themselves are racist. I think it's just a measure of the racism levels in their own countries. The more racist incidents in life that a person encounters or witnesses, surely shows to some extent how racist his environment is.

Also, to be honest, the fact that we can see a trend of developed countries completely dominating the top 10 places in such surveys, this surely has to tell us something. We don't see any Western countries down as being some of the most racist in the world, nowhere near. It's the developing and third world countries that dominate the positions of being the most racist in these surveys.

 

I mean there's response bias also in questions like "would you like a neighbor of another race," especially in countries where being a bigot is socially unacceptable to a lot of people and even bigots know that. That can play into whether or not people are responding to the surveys truthfully. If they aren't convinced by the anonymity of the survey, they'll be more inclined to lie. There's also this survey, which tbh I don't know anything about the methodology other than the number of responses (which isn't great, because typically you're hoping for a sample size of at least 100 for any kind of statistical significance... and for this survey they're teetering around 100 for most of the surveyed countries.

But I also think the question they asked is less likely to invoke response bias from people in the west: https://www.indexmundi.com/surveys/results/8

And just looking at around the top of that list, I feel like that actually makes more sense. You've got South Africa which has struggled with racism for... fucking ages... even in a post-Apartheid world. You've got South American countries that have huge racial divides and inequity between the majority of their population & indigenous people. There's Afghanistan where the Taliban have been pushing Pashtun supremacy for as long as the Taliban has been a thing, aside from the other religious bullshit they push. There's Saudi Arabia which doesn't surprise me based off my own anecdotal experience. And a few of the big developed western countries that have had noted significant racial issues as well. The thing I'm most surprised about is China not being in the top 5, tbh, but again that's also probably just because of my anecdotal experience. 

I think we'll struggle to find an accurate survey that really tells us which people are the "most racist" - it's the type of survey that's going to be inherently flawed from the get-go imo because it is so hard to remove response bias. And you'd need to get pretty large samples from most (if not all) countries in the world.

Either way, my initial point was very much about what we see on social media regarding football players experiencing racism. And honestly with social media & English language racial abuse, we're mostly going to find the racists racially abusing players are in the Anglosphere and other English speakers in the developed world. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Honestly to me it makes perfect sense that developing nations with hostile history with their neighbors are the most racist. It shouldn't even be close imo.