Panna King 1,012 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said: You're attempt to blame pandemics on immigration. I mean at a base level, yes, if nobody ever moved around but this is so obvious as to be pointless in saying it, hence the motive is more nefarious. It is the main cause of the spread so not sure what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Just now, Panna King said: It is the main cause of the spread so not sure what the problem is. What's your solution? Do you think human beings should never move around, do you think immigrants were to blame for the bubonic plague? Are fleas immigrants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: What's your solution? Do you think human beings should never move around, do you think immigrants were to blame for the bubonic plague? Are fleas immigrants? Of course it was as it was brought in from Merchant ships who were trading goods and people. There is not point going on when the first word you said was racist seriously its like speaking to someone from Antifa. Edited January 26, 2021 by Panna King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted January 26, 2021 Administrator Share Posted January 26, 2021 17 minutes ago, Panna King said: Well pandemics are linked to travel and migration, in the past merchant ships carried diseases that is how the plague started from the fleas on the rats, even the last Spanish Flu in 1918 was from military bases based in Europe from the War. A huge wave of immigration was in America after that time. There is now a lot of free movement of people, so its all linked. That's not the reason it's every 100 years either. It's just coincidence that's the case. People travel and migrate every month, every year in huge numbers. The year it happens is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Panna King said: Of course it was as it was brought in from Merchant ships who were trading goods and people. There is not point going on when the first word you said was racist seriously its like speaking to someone from Antifa. I've read your posts on immigration before, you're not only thick but a bigot. People should be more honest about people like you. Edited January 26, 2021 by The Artful Dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: I've read your posts on immigration before, you're not only thick but a bigot. People should be more honest about people like you. I have hardly mentioned anything about immigration in the past Go back on your marches with Piers Corbyn. Edited January 26, 2021 by Panna King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, Stan said: That's not the reason it's every 100 years either. It's just coincidence that's the case. People travel and migrate every month, every year in huge numbers. The year it happens is irrelevant. Yeah it is a coincidence but the Spanish flu was down to migration after the first World war, in the past they were bought over by the merchant ships carrying goods and people. I was just responding to Chris's photo now getting called a racist so a bit odd really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 The 'immigrants spread disease' trope has been around for a millennium or more, only a certain kind of person with certain kinds of views uses it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,664 Posted January 26, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted January 26, 2021 Immigration has nothing to do with this pandemic. For every immigrant that enters a country these days you've probably got 1000 people visiting or returning for/from work or holiday trips. We're way past this sort of thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, RandoEFC said: Immigration has nothing to do with this pandemic. For every immigrant that enters a country these days you've probably got 1000 people visiting or returning for/from work or holiday trips. We're way past this sort of thing. I never said this pandemic it was just the past ones on a photo chris posted. Some reason when you mention immigrants they think you mean black, asian etc when the Spanish flu was spread by Military and Europeans immigrating. Edited January 26, 2021 by Panna King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,190 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 6 hours ago, Panna King said: It is the main cause of the spread so not sure what the problem is. I’m not sure immigration was the main cause, so much as tourism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I’m not sure immigration was the main cause, so much as tourism. Yeah travel should've been stopped the whole time. Are The UK stopping it from today? Putting people in hotels for 2 weeks when other countries were doing this months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,190 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 23 minutes ago, Panna King said: Yeah travel should've been stopped the whole time. Are The UK stopping it from today? Putting people in hotels for 2 weeks when other countries were doing this months ago. I think the UK have stopped letting people in entirely - but they were doing the mandatory quarantine period in hotels. The UK's done a pretty piss poor job at managing the virus, but they've done better than many other countries in a lot of ways as well. Which is actually pretty remarkable because our government is made up of pure incompetence bagged up and thrown into various people. The fact the pandemic is as bad as it is currently is because governments acted very slow, imo. The outbreak had come to light right before the Chinese lunar new year - which is probably South East Asia's biggest tourism holiday. So as it was spreading from Wuhan to other parts of China - it was making its way around the world. Once it hit Italy and we saw how badly places like Bergamo hit, Europe and the Americas could have acted much faster to contain the spread. Quite a few big countries really did not act anywhere near fast enough and tried to play it off like the pandemic spreading was normal and fine and it would all blow over after a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Johnson needs to shut his trap with his 'We will make sure we learn lessons' line... Thought it had been a while since that line was last trotted out.... The bloke couldn't learn a lesson if he went all the way back and started again from primary school level... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,009 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted January 26, 2021 Administrator Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Panna King said: Yeah travel should've been stopped the whole time. Are The UK stopping it from today? Putting people in hotels for 2 weeks when other countries were doing this months ago. Only if they're from countries where there's a strong new variant i.e. Southern Africa, South America and Portugal (due to a lot of Brazil flights coming via Portugal). Oh and the passenger has to pay for the 2-week stay themselves, could cost up £2k I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,664 Posted January 26, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted January 26, 2021 I have some sympathy for the UK government in a lot of the elements of their handling of the past 12 months. For example, they've been copping a lot of flack for the first late lockdown, they called it wrong here but the SAGE minutes show that actually, they were at least following one of the scientifically verified viewpoints. It's important not to bash every little thing that they did wrong and concentrate on the real big hitters. Border Control - failure to put in place any sort of sufficient quarantine until the summer when the air bridge stuff started. Dominic Cummings - it'll be incredibly difficult to prove what the impact of this story was on lockdown compliance as even if you asked people directly, it's incredibly hard for them to really understand and explain why they stopped taking lockdown restrictions as seriously. The worst part about this looking back is at the time at least it felt like Cummings was indispensable to the government as they tried to finish off their Brexit strategy but it turns out that calling Johnson's missus names was enough to give him the boot. Test and Trace / General Cronyism - don't really have to explain this. The vaccine rollout is Exhibit A of why the NHS, or at least companies with established or relevant expertise in PPE, contact tracing, etc. etc. are a better choice during a national crisis than firms in irrelevant sectors with links to the ruling political party. Christmas - probably the single biggest fuck up that has led to the most deaths, telling people they could have 5 days of freedom for Christmas against all sense and science before pulling the plug at the last minute. Cue thousands of people fleeing Tier 4 areas overnight before new restrictions came in and delivering the mutated variant to every corner of the country in one fell swoop. There's so, so much more that are almost up there. Eat Out to Help Out is up there along with the dallying over the November lockdown and spending all Autumn changing the rules for the tier system, announcing at one of the press conferences that the strictest restrictions (Tier 3 at the time) weren't strict enough to suppress the virus, schools in general all the way through the winter, and this is just the stuff that drove infections and deaths through the roof. After that you get into the free school meals stuff, planning to cut universal credit mid-pandemic, the brinksmanship over the Brexit deal in the middle of a pandemic and the farcical exam results algorithm. Not been the best year has it and it's disingenuous of him to pretend that the government have done everything they can to preserve life when actually they've done a lot of stuff that's tried to balance economic damage and loss of life, which is necessary to an extent but the chaotic inconsistencies and rule changes have left us with the worst of both worlds. At least he said today that he takes full responsibility for everything the government has done which is an acknowledgement of sorts that they've made mistakes. This shouldn't be a notable positive but it is at least a step in the right direction, and at least the vaccination program has been successful so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,327 Posted January 26, 2021 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 26, 2021 A very interesting interview with the CEO of AstraZeneca: https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/ "Anyway, we didn't commit with the EU, by the way. It's not a commitment we have to Europe: it’s a best effort, we said we are going to make our best effort. The reason why we said that is because Europe at the time wanted to be supplied more or less at the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later. So we said, “ok, we're going to do our best, we’re going to try, but we cannot commit contractually because we are three months behind UK”. We knew it was a super stretch goal and we know it's a big issue, this pandemic. But our contract is not a contractual commitment." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,664 Posted January 27, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted January 27, 2021 Makes sense. I'm really not liking this underlying UK vs EU dynamic that's seems to be bubbling just under the surface. It's horrible in a scenario like this where you can't really blame anyone for looking out for their own interests first, when in an ideal world you'd look to vaccinate the most vulnerable first globally before working your way down the categories. It is unfair on people in other countries who are getting their vaccine after someone with the same risk factor in the UK because of when the government signed the contracts but then again, if you go down that route you could say it's unfair on the UK population that they've had the worst protection from their government in Europe so at the end of the day you can't get past the luck factor of having your health depend on governments who may or may not deliver the goods. What I can't get past is the Brexit brigade hamming up the Vaccine World Cup angle because it's offering them a rare and surprise opportunity for a "victory" over the EU which they're desperate for in the face of Brexit going pretty badly so far. Farage even accused the EU of "exposing themselves as nationalists" over the talk of protectionism over vaccine produced in Europe. I don't agree with them doing that but the irony of Farage, the spearhead of a nationalist movement, calling the European Union, a union of several different nations, "nationalists" is probably the bloodiest murder of satire yet. Hopefully we build a massive syringe to operate as a launcher and fire him into the sun as soon as possible. Using Europe's struggles to start vaccinating their population against this horrible virus as an anti-EU land grab has to be pretty much as low as they've sunk so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreeluke 722 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) Got home from work last night and felt ill and then like a fever came on and my body was aching in random places which meant I couldn't sleep most of the night. I'm a teacher and spoke to the doctors this morning and I've got a test for Monday morning. We'll see how it goes, more worried about others than myself to be honest at this moment in time. Edited January 27, 2021 by carefreeluke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris 2,606 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) They were speaking about some of the victims on Tele this morning and it's sad viewing. Many may be in their 70s, 80s, 90s, but that doesn't mean they deserve to die prematurely from a virus that wouldn't even be present in the first place had the governments around the world acted 12 months ago when the virus was first made public knowledge. Maybe it wouldn't have completely eradicated the virus or prevented it reaching other countries, given how it was around for a few months before the world was made aware of its existence, but it certainly wouldn't have become this extreme. It's not just victims of the virus itself either, as this will cause a shitload of death and misery from the lockdowns themselves. It'll be a country(or world..) full of zombies on prescription drugs for mental health issues when all settled down. Suicides, physical illnesses caused by stress or being stationary too much, lowered and weakened immune systems, shattered front line workers who can't cope... I also don't know why they are speaking about March all the time either? January is when it was made public knowledge. If a new virus appears in a country, you take actions immediately surely? This isn't only England, but the majority of the world. Just fuck ups everywhere, it wasn't taken seriously enough and the mixed messages from the WHO didn't help either. The more a virus can be contained to one country, the less chance an epidemic becomes a pandemic, surely? It's lucky ebola appeared in a part of the world where people aren't well travelled(well, not lucky for them obviously) as that would have been devastating itself. I won't pretend to be an expert on viruses, but it seems quite obvious to me. The scenes from Brazil are like Medieval times with people literally suffocating in hospitals due to a shortage of oxygen. Awful to see. Edited January 27, 2021 by Carnivore Chris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted January 27, 2021 Administrator Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 hours ago, carefreeluke said: Got home from work last night and felt ill and then like a fever came on and my body was aching in random places which meant I couldn't sleep most of the night. I'm a teacher and spoke to the doctors this morning and I've got a test for Monday morning. We'll see how it goes, more worried about others than myself to be honest at this moment in time. Good luck mate, hope you can recover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,617 Posted January 27, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 49 minutes ago, Tommy said: Good news you haven't got covid. Bad news you won't walk straight for a week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMike 3,009 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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