George Floyd Death - Derek Chauvin Guilty of Murder

[Carnivore Chris]

1 hour ago, Inverted said:

If you see two sides, and one is throwing out Nazi salutes, and you decide that the other are the real scum, then you're letting everyone know far too much about how you look at the world. 

Oh and I see 3 sides, not 2.

 

I see black lives matter activists, then I see middle class lefties filling said people's heads with shit to create a stir, then the country's biggest bellends come out for a kick off and that's, we've been taken back 4 decades!

[Stan]

Why is it middle class lefties filling people's heads in but then the cunts today it's coming out for a kick off. Far more than that. They've been wanting this kind of fight for ages and now sadly they have that excuse. 

Other way round more like. 

By the way I don't condone any threats or attacks on the police and I don't think all statues should be taken down. I also don't think it 'erases' or 'rewrites' history if any were taken down. I also don't think that anyone attacking police/defacing statues last week is representative of the whole BLM movement. I think it's disingenuous to label all of them as wanting to kick people's heads in based on the actions of a minority. 

But to not call a spade a spade for today's scenes is naive and not right I think. 

I still don't get your logic of wondering why there's a left vs right debate with the kind of labels and language you use. Despite that, the left vs right has gone on for ages. Brexit was a catalyst for it. 

[Carnivore Chris]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Why is it middle class lefties filling people's heads in but then the cunts today it's coming out for a kick off. Far more than that. They've been wanting this kind of fight for ages and now sadly they have that excuse. 

Other way round more like. 

By the way I don't condone any threats or attacks on the police and I don't think all statues should be taken down. I also don't think it 'erases' or 'rewrites' history if any were taken down. I also don't think that anyone attacking police/defacing statues last week is representative of the whole BLM movement. I think it's disingenuous to label all of them as wanting to kick people's heads in based on the actions of a minority. 

But to not call a spade a spade for today's scenes is naive and not right I think. 

I still don't get your logic of wondering why there's a left vs right debate with the kind of labels and language you use. Despite that, the left vs right has gone on for ages. Brexit was a catalyst for it. 

Well around here, there isn't any racial tension, although a (white) lefty professor from the uni made sure she made it public knowledge recently about how monuments and statues around the castle and priory area are of people who were involved in the slave trade and now there has been vandalism in an area full of medevil and even Roman architecture. There is no real "right wing" presence around here, there is a bit of a left one though(mainly students and middle classes) and they have protests about shit that doesn't affect them or this city all the time in the town centre. Dull people in reality, but can also potentially be dangerous in situations like this.

Apparently this was the 4th biggest import city in the country for the trade of slaves, but the fact it's become more multicultural and open than ever in recent years is a big fuck you to that nasty part of history in its own. Why bring that back up now, other than with the intention of potentially creating problems that didn't exist already?

The problem here is this could lead to racial hatred that was never there before and people taking it the whole wrong way and before you know it, there is tension for nothing. 

Not to mention there is a virus going about, let's start a massive outbreak in a small city killing 1,000s.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Carnivore Chris said:

Well around here, there isn't any racial tension, although a (white) lefty professor from the uni made sure she made it public knowledge recently about how monuments and statues around the castle and priory area are of people who were involved in the slave trade and now there has been vandalism in an area full of medevil and even Roman architecture. There is no real "right wing" presence around here, there is a bit of a left one though(mainly students and middle classes) and they have protests about shit that doesn't affect them or this city all the time in the town centre. Dull people in reality, but can also potentially be dangerous in situations like this.

Apparently this was the 4th biggest import city for the trade of slaves, but the fact it's become more multicultural and open than ever in recent years is a big fuck you to that nasty part of history in its own. Why bring that back up now, other than with the intention of potentially creating problems that didn't exist already?

The problem here is this could lead to racial hatred that was never there before and people taking it the whole wrong way and before you know it, there is tension for nothing. 

Not to mention there is a virus going about, let's start a massive outbreak in a small city killing 1,000s.

Fair enough. I can only imagine she's fighting a bigger fight, not just restricted to locally. 

The virus was being broken all over the place way before last week. 

You can guarantee those moaning last week about attending protests were probably there today in London protesting as well

[Inverted]

The notion that today's events have been provoked by anything is observably nonsensical, purely because we have seen that these kinds of displays of nationalist, degenerate behaviour happen like clockwork every 2 years - if not more often.

This would have happened at some point anyway. The only difference is that this year, rather than being in France or Russia, these people were stuck at home in England. 

 

[Carnivore Chris]

49 minutes ago, Stan said:

Fair enough. I can only imagine she's fighting a bigger fight, not just restricted to locally. 

The virus was being broken all over the place way before last week. 

You can guarantee those moaning last week about attending protests were probably there today in London protesting as well

All these clowns were always going to rear their heads at some point either way. I knew 3 months ago that there would be riots and protests at some point. For many it's become an excuse to start a riot. 

43 minutes ago, Inverted said:

The notion that today's events have been provoked by anything is observably nonsensical, purely because we have seen that these kinds of displays of nationalist, degenerate behaviour happen like clockwork every 2 years. 

The only difference is that this year, rather than being in France or Russia, these people were stuck at home in England. 

 

Ye but around here it's different. There is quite a big population of Asians, then mainly whites in the other areas, with black people usually living in the same areas, although not having the biggest of populations and people live in peace and harmony. There will be your fair share of casual racists of course, but we don't see racial tensions. Also, due to the uni, there are people from all over the world nowadays, mainly China, but i see no serious racial hatred. I see an improved town(well small city) with culture.

Most of the people I know in Preston are black as the area I lived in for short period back in 2007 was largely a black area and I had no problems befriending people as there is no serious racial tension in that city these days, or atleast then.

Now, I do remember in around 2004 or 05, a mate of mine and myself drove down to Burnley to pick up 2 birds. On the way out, we ended up in the "wrong area", where we were chased out of there by Asians for being white. Reason why is because racial tensions at that point were high, I think this is when the BNP had a big following there. I fucking shit myself if I'm honest

I didn't think I would ever actually have to mention this though or even have to bring up one's race full stop, although the point I'm making is that, I wouldn't want to see the top 2 towns(and others) become like the 3rd one simply because these type of cretins I was referring to are trying to stir it up.

[Stan]

 

[RandoEFC+]

7 hours ago, Carnivore Chris said:

It started off about police brutality and racial injustice in a country that is rife with it and people have had enough. Then people over here come out to show solidarity, which is fine. But then before you know it, the wacko extreme left, usually middle class lefties who have it easy, start to kick up a fuss about statues and old TV programs, filling people's heads with junk so they go out vandalising statues and old buildings, which isn't what this was even about. All this does is create anger from people who feel their culture is being disrespected, they then go out, they riot and before you know it, everyone is against each other.

There has been graffiti of monuments and statues around here now. Why? Because some jumped up middle class lefty cunt(who is white female) from the uni has been on facebook bringing it to people's attention on who in the history of the town had connections to the slave trade. You could potentially create a fucking riot in a nice relaxed small city where there is no racial tension, low crime, opportunities for all and it's more multicultural and open all the time. There's never been any form of serious racial tensions around here during my time like in other towns or parts of the country, so fuck off.  

Then it becomes left Vs right and the BBC tell us it's a race issue and how the right are evil and the left are angels, when both are scum(especially the left in this case) and taking race relations in the country back 40 years.

Someone's been reading a bit too much Union Jack profile Twitter by the looks of it.

The BBC say nothing of the sort. That's just an absolutely absurd take on every level. The media report what gets clicks and last weekend it was the small flare-ups in violence between the BLM protestors (mostly black by the way but some white as well) and the statue getting pulled down by a complete mixture of white and black people who all believe slavery is not okay. I'm pretty sure being middle class and/or white and/or female has no influence on how tolerant you should be of slave traders being glorified but then I'm from a middle class white family so maybe I'm just virtue signalling and not allowed to comment. This weekend the media have reported on the white supremacists and 28 year old virgins rampaging through Hyde Park thinking they're fucking well hard for kicking over people's flasks at a picnic. The people who were thugs in both cases were reported as such by the media. The media also reported that the majority of the protests went ahead last weekend without violence, and most of the criticism was pointed towards the lack of social distancing.

This weekend there weren't many people there who were doing anything other than looking for a fight. This isn't an opinion, it's just a fact. There may have been people who were going to come to "counter-protest" peacefully but stayed at home when BLM cancelled their own protest. I was watching Sky News for some of the afternoon and they spoke to a white lad who came down genuinely to stand in front of the statues because he didn't want them pulled down and he was going around picking up rubbish after the other cunts until they had to stop the interview because some hard boy in a balaclava starting yelling expletives in his face and questioning why he was talking to the "scum media". You won't see the reasonable lad who was there for what qualifies as a genuine reason and didn't want any trouble doesn't make for good retweets or shares. Remember that what you see on social media represents the tiny <1% of the population who have their own political agendas and spin every viral clip with what they think is a bit of a zinger and get 10,000 retweets from their loyal echo chamber that makes them think they're right. This applies to morons on both ends of the political spectrum.

As for the whole racism thing, I had a long conversation with my Dad about this today, and it's just an undeniable fact that black and white people still don't have equal opportunities in the UK. This isn't a case of every white person being the devil and making conscious decisions based on race. It's 99% subconscious. There are no black managers or referees in the Premier League for example. This doesn't mean the people who hand out those jobs are racist. It goes way deeper than that. There are 1,000 tiny turning points in peoples' lives that lead to that being the case. Every one of us needs to reflect on whether and why we subconsciously think of people differently based on their appearance. We all do it, and these recent events have caused me personally to reflect on whether I jump to different conclusions, all subconsciously, about different people. Nobody is asking white people to repent and whip themselves a thousand times because our ancestors were slavers. 

I like to think that basically none of us are consciously racist now. It is not a criticism of you as a person that Black Lives Matter still need to make their voices heard. You speak of racial tension in specific towns and cities, I'm not talking about open racial divides, although they still exist somewhere, I'm talking about the subconscious and systemic racism that we have to admit still exists if we're going to keep improving. It isn't weakness or an admittance of guilt to see that so many people feel passionately that they aren't getting the same deal that you are. None of us should be afraid to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask whether we're really doing everything we can to be better to each other, and none of us should be afraid to acknowledge that you could possibly see things in a different light. What is weak is seeing a handful of helmets who don't know how to behave like human beings hijack a good cause as an opportunity to cause trouble, and using that to tar the entire movement with the same brush, fuelling it with Twitter rhetoric about "extreme left" and "far right" that many politicians shamefully pile in on, and ultimately refusing to think twice about whether they might actually have a point.

You can't legislate for dickheads. For the normal people like us you condemn the twats regardless of which "side" they're pretending to be on as their excuse to cause trouble, and you look at yourself and have a genuine reflection on whether you could possibly rethink a few things about your life, what you say, what you do and what you think. If you get angry at the trouble being caused by the minority then you're giving them what they want which is either the escalation of a culture war or simply trouble.

[Fairy In Boots]

On 13/06/2020 at 19:36, Inverted said:

The notion that today's events have been provoked by anything is observably nonsensical, purely because we have seen that these kinds of displays of nationalist, degenerate behaviour happen like clockwork every 2 years - if not more often.

This would have happened at some point anyway. The only difference is that this year, rather than being in France or Russia, these people were stuck at home in England. 

 

So what’s your explanation for the trouble in Glasgow? 
 

there’s nothing like talking about how evil xenophobia is by being xenophobic in the process. You are a tit at times, it’s like weird world all over again. 

[Inverted]

16 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

So what’s your explanation for the trouble in Glasgow? 
 

there’s nothing like talking about how evil xenophobia is by being xenophobic in the process. You are a tit at times, it’s like weird world all over again. 

The lot out in George Square defending statues from phantom SJWs also have priors. Manchester got to know them very well. 

Its not just the English who do these things. Didn't say that anywhere. I'm just saying there are people in England who very regularly do.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Didn't know where to put this but put it in here rather than the Covidiots thread due to what has happened recently. 

I wonder how many of those pulling down statues of slave traders or involved with it were the same people owning Apple products or queueing outside Primark. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53044826

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Didn't know where to put this but put it in here rather than the Covidiots thread due to what has happened recently. 

I wonder how many of those pulling down statues of slave traders or involved with it were the same people owning Apple products or queueing outside Primark. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53044826

When the government say 'Spend For Britain' it enables public behaviour again. I don't agree with all the queues but there's literally nothing that can be done on this one. The timeline was there for everyone to plan for. It negates the government's own message of 'only travel if essential' when they open 'non-essential retail shops' . 

Kind of contradicts their own message. I know you don't like to pin everything on government which is fair enough and people can/will be idiots as well, but it's the epitome of making a rod for your own back...

[Bluebird Hewitt]

3 hours ago, Stan said:

When the government say 'Spend For Britain' it enables public behaviour again. I don't agree with all the queues but there's literally nothing that can be done on this one. The timeline was there for everyone to plan for. It negates the government's own message of 'only travel if essential' when they open 'non-essential retail shops' . 

Kind of contradicts their own message. I know you don't like to pin everything on government which is fair enough and people can/will be idiots as well, but it's the epitome of making a rod for your own back...

Sorry, my bad. 

I was linking this more to do with Primark being involved with using cheap/slave labour for the clothes they stock and how many of those queueing were the same people tearing down statues etc. 

[Carnivore Chris]

On 14/06/2020 at 00:23, RandoEFC said:

Someone's been reading a bit too much Union Jack profile Twitter by the looks of it.

The BBC say nothing of the sort. That's just an absolutely absurd take on every level. The media report what gets clicks and last weekend it was the small flare-ups in violence between the BLM protestors (mostly black by the way but some white as well) and the statue getting pulled down by a complete mixture of white and black people who all believe slavery is not okay. I'm pretty sure being middle class and/or white and/or female has no influence on how tolerant you should be of slave traders being glorified but then I'm from a middle class white family so maybe I'm just virtue signalling and not allowed to comment. This weekend the media have reported on the white supremacists and 28 year old virgins rampaging through Hyde Park thinking they're fucking well hard for kicking over people's flasks at a picnic. The people who were thugs in both cases were reported as such by the media. The media also reported that the majority of the protests went ahead last weekend without violence, and most of the criticism was pointed towards the lack of social distancing.

This weekend there weren't many people there who were doing anything other than looking for a fight. This isn't an opinion, it's just a fact. There may have been people who were going to come to "counter-protest" peacefully but stayed at home when BLM cancelled their own protest. I was watching Sky News for some of the afternoon and they spoke to a white lad who came down genuinely to stand in front of the statues because he didn't want them pulled down and he was going around picking up rubbish after the other cunts until they had to stop the interview because some hard boy in a balaclava starting yelling expletives in his face and questioning why he was talking to the "scum media". You won't see the reasonable lad who was there for what qualifies as a genuine reason and didn't want any trouble doesn't make for good retweets or shares. Remember that what you see on social media represents the tiny <1% of the population who have their own political agendas and spin every viral clip with what they think is a bit of a zinger and get 10,000 retweets from their loyal echo chamber that makes them think they're right. This applies to morons on both ends of the political spectrum.

As for the whole racism thing, I had a long conversation with my Dad about this today, and it's just an undeniable fact that black and white people still don't have equal opportunities in the UK. This isn't a case of every white person being the devil and making conscious decisions based on race. It's 99% subconscious. There are no black managers or referees in the Premier League for example. This doesn't mean the people who hand out those jobs are racist. It goes way deeper than that. There are 1,000 tiny turning points in peoples' lives that lead to that being the case. Every one of us needs to reflect on whether and why we subconsciously think of people differently based on their appearance. We all do it, and these recent events have caused me personally to reflect on whether I jump to different conclusions, all subconsciously, about different people. Nobody is asking white people to repent and whip themselves a thousand times because our ancestors were slavers. 

I like to think that basically none of us are consciously racist now. It is not a criticism of you as a person that Black Lives Matter still need to make their voices heard. You speak of racial tension in specific towns and cities, I'm not talking about open racial divides, although they still exist somewhere, I'm talking about the subconscious and systemic racism that we have to admit still exists if we're going to keep improving. It isn't weakness or an admittance of guilt to see that so many people feel passionately that they aren't getting the same deal that you are. None of us should be afraid to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask whether we're really doing everything we can to be better to each other, and none of us should be afraid to acknowledge that you could possibly see things in a different light. What is weak is seeing a handful of helmets who don't know how to behave like human beings hijack a good cause as an opportunity to cause trouble, and using that to tar the entire movement with the same brush, fuelling it with Twitter rhetoric about "extreme left" and "far right" that many politicians shamefully pile in on, and ultimately refusing to think twice about whether they might actually have a point.

You can't legislate for dickheads. For the normal people like us you condemn the twats regardless of which "side" they're pretending to be on as their excuse to cause trouble, and you look at yourself and have a genuine reflection on whether you could possibly rethink a few things about your life, what you say, what you do and what you think. If you get angry at the trouble being caused by the minority then you're giving them what they want which is either the escalation of a culture war or simply trouble.

 

I don't even use twitter to be honest, not even facebook anymore. Twitter has never done it for me and when I did have an account, I think I used it for about a month. I used to be a facebook addict like most, although that buzz just died one day and I've genuinely not been on it at all in years. I don't even really know why I used the terms left and right, but there isn't really a better way to describe it and it makes more sense than black and white or racists and anti racists.

Don't think I'm digging my head in the sand and thinking racism doesn't exist mate as it does, but  this could take race relations back 40 years and let's be honest, the race relations in this country, especially between white and black, couldn't be better in general compared to other nations. You are right about systematic racism though and the most racist people you meet are usually ones in a position of power. As for London especially, it's pretty obvious that black males are far more likely to be stopped by police. But then this is what it was about in the beginning and was never about black vs white, it was more against a system. So to see such escalations is shit and scenes we shouldn't actually be seeing. In 2011 there were riots for the same reasons but it was all people vs the system rather than the people vs the people. I'm not saying people should attack police mind, but the protests were mainly towards them and the government.

Speaking of riots, if the riots reached the level of 2011, they would be even worse when you consider there are now opposing groups, rather than groups together opposing a system. That can be very dangerous for a country and this is what I don't want to see. Not to mention the certain virus that everyone seems to have suddenly forgotten about now.

But the problem with the people I mentioned originally(not all are the same at the uni, it's a very small portion in fact, so don't think I was getting at you, since you went to the same uni) is they are bringing up seriously ancient history at a time where people are sensitive and ready to explode. It's not that this history shouldn't be known(it should be taught in schools around here in history lessons before anything else, but doesn't seem to be?) it's just the timing, as it could quite easily cause a lot of trouble when you have people vandalising old historic monuments. The Priory is older than @Bluewolf(it's medieval shit) and doesn't need graffiti all over it. Yes, the plaques on there are likely of a nonce who had 8 10 year old wives, chopped all their heads off before raping their dead bodies and had 200 slaves, but then does that not explain why these days were called "medieval"? Many evil people existed then and they were evil times, primitive. Women even used to be hanged and drowned in the castle next to it and regarded as witches.

People also forget how much black culture influences young white kids these days. They all want to dress the same, listen to the same music. If everyone listened to hip hop(but real hip hop, not this in the charts) and smoked weed, there would be no racism. This is a fact . On a serious note, sometimes we should look at the positives in how much society has progressed, while not forgetting the existing problems at the same time.

With lack referees, it's hard to say if it's due to race or not because it might be a case of not enough black people wanting to be referees(I've never looked into it, so I could be wrong and you could have a point there) and it can't be easy to become a premier league referee, not many actually have that opportunity full stop. Also there are probably 500,000 Indians living in the country, many are English of Indian heritage, yet we never see any playing in the Premier League or for England. @Stan was set to be the first, but his dream was shattered when he realised he was shit ....But on a serious note, the case with Indians is likely because a lot don't have the same level of interest in football as white lads, or black lads do. But then you can look at other areas, I mean more successful rappers are black(and believe me there is not a lack of top white rappers, they often just don't have the marketability), or certain athletes, also boxers and it's just the way it is sometimes, rather than it being related to race.

As for managers, well there aren't even any white English managers in the top jobs anymore, they are all Spanish, Italian, French, German, Portuguese, Argentine, and pretty much everything but. This is what a league becomes like when it has so much money and pulling power. It's not just black English managers, it's also white English ones who are now losing out on top manager jobs. But it's a case of them not being good enough and the ones who come in are much better.

By the way, I've also found that Muslims seem to receive the most racial hatred out of everyone in the country and I would bet money on it that the Chinese have had a sudden rise in hate towards them. It's not just white though but there are cases of black people being racist against them too. It's definitely not a racist free country by all means, but it is an improved one, or was before this and especially between white and black communities. If this was "Muslim lives matter", barely any white people(unless they were Muslim themselves of course) would be there(let's be honest!) but they are out in huge numbers for Black lives matter, so it shows how good the relations actually are in general, not always, but in general. @Fairy In Boots could probably shed more light as he is from Birmingham, which is a well known city for how well whites and blacks have generally integrated together into society, or atleast I've always had that impression. We don't want this to change though because idiots start looking into this differently to what it was supposed to be about. This is what angers me. It's not about thinking racism doesn't exist or that there doesn't need to be improvements made still, but how it could literally cause a lot of friction if people stir it up. Hopefully not though and it's just me being paranoid.

 

Anyway, in terms of the USA(where the problems are significantly worse if we are honest), it would have been interesting to see what @Teso dos Bichos had to say considering how he's a Mexican living in a Southern US state and has likely had it shit for racism during his lifetime.

 

 

 

 

 

[Carnivore Chris]

But honestly, I'm going to stay away from this topic now and not discuss it too much. Just leave people to it and hopefully it dies down, the virus fucks off and we can all look back at this year as one to laugh about and not something that changes the future of how everyone lives. Not just in England, but this is affecting literally everyone in the world and for the first time ever in our lifetimes. This is a time where everyone should be coming together more than ever before if anything!

[RandoEFC+]

@Carnivore Chris you make a litany of very valid points and I instantly regretted using the word offensive and sarcastic comments about Twitter but by the time I'd written the rest of it I just couldn't be arsed and it was time for bed. 

There's a discussion to be had about buildings, statues etc. and several shades of grey surrounding each one. I think at one end of the scale you've got people like Colston who shouldn't have a statue because he was *a slave trader*. He wasn't Lincoln or Washington who were Presidents who happened to own slaves because that was a thing at the time. I know slavery isn't okay now but if they put a statue of Obama up outside the White House or something, and in 200 years it's deemed to be a completely unethical part of society to say, drink alcohol at all or eat meat, then nobody living now (apart from people who hate Obama) would say that it was sensible to have that statue taken down.

One of the things that makes the Colston statue exceptional was that his headline thing in life was the slave trade. It wasn't just something he did because everyone was doing it. This is why taking down Churchill's statue is such a dumb comparison. He said racist things that were more acceptable at the time and there are other controversies surrounding him, but when the question is asked "who was Churchill?" the majority of people wouldn't say "a racist", they'd say "the Prime Minister that stopped the Nazis". This is something to be honoured. Being rich because you profited from slavery and were responsible for thousands of slaves dying is an extreme enough departure to have a statue taken down in my opinion. It's also the fact that it was a statue, which in itself suggests he's being honoured. I'd imagine there's a pretty good chance that plenty of people wouldn't give a shit about the buildings and streets named after Colston and probably wouldn't even know who he was if the statue wasn't there rubbing everyone's noses in it. I might be wrong on that last point as there will obviously be at least some people who still feel as passionate about getting the name removed.

All of the rest is a grey area. For me, the protests need to stop now. They had the big BLM demonstrations in London on one weekend. In the middle of a pandemic asking them to leave it at that is reasonable and also isn't asking them to forget about their cause overall. The protests we saw on Saturday were totally unjustified on any level but hopefully they've got it out of their system now.

[Fairy In Boots]

On 13/06/2020 at 19:36, Inverted said:

The notion that today's events have been provoked by anything is observably nonsensical, purely because we have seen that these kinds of displays of nationalist, degenerate behaviour happen like clockwork every 2 years - if not more often.

This would have happened at some point anyway. The only difference is that this year, rather than being in France or Russia, these people were stuck at home in England. 

 

 

On 14/06/2020 at 20:26, Inverted said:

The lot out in George Square defending statues from phantom SJWs also have priors. Manchester got to know them very well. 

Its not just the English who do these things. Didn't say that anywhere. I'm just saying there are people in England who very regularly do.

Original post doesn’t read that way, “stuck at home in England” suggests it’s the English. 
 

I’m not offended just find the irony amusing. 

[Inverted]

8 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

 

Original post doesn’t read that way, “stuck at home in England” suggests it’s the English. 
 

I’m not offended just find the irony amusing. 

I was referring in the first post specifically the footage coming from London where the initial statue-defending thing cropped up. 

There are a few countries which suffer from having specific groups who will turn out for a public piss-up and a bit of scrapping at any excuse. Unluckily for us, Scotland and England are two of those countries. 

[MUFC]

Saw quite a few videos of the Tommy Robinson bum boys getting floored by a single punch from some really big black dudes. I'm not talking 5 and 1 here. 1 vs 1, the punches were fucking brutal.

[Harry]

Oxford University to take down Cecil Rhodes statue.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/education-53082545

Can I just ask what others think about this?

For me I support taking down statues of confederates from the American Civil war because they are used by the right as a symbol of racism, and people know what is implied by someone bearing the confederate flag.

But I wouldn't support removing statues of Thomas Jefferson or George Washington. They lived in a different time and they don't align to today's positions on equality, but it's not realistic to hold these people accountable for not answering to today's standards. Also I think it's important to be able to remember and draw inspiration from the greatness of those that came before. Not shy away from their flaws, but still respect their contributions, and respect them for having a big part in shaping the world we live in today.

[Mel81x+]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

Oxford University to take down Cecil Rhodes statue.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/education-53082545

Can I just ask what others think about this?

For me I support taking down statues of confederates from the American Civil war because they are used by the right as a symbol of racism, and people know what is implied by someone bearing the confederate flag.

But I wouldn't support removing statues of Thomas Jefferson or George Washington. They lived in a different time and they don't align to today's positions on equality, but it's not realistic to hold these people accountable for not answering to today's standards. Also I think it's important to be able to remember and draw inspiration from the greatness of those that came before. Not shy away from their flaws, but still respect their contributions, and respect them for having a big part in shaping the world we live in today.

Think this article sums up the controversy behind the person. The interesting part is that its come back around again even though it really should have been discussed and done with a long time ago and this is just a fallout from all the riots and protests going on worldwide really.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32131829

[MUFC]

On 15/06/2020 at 15:26, RandoEFC said:

@Carnivore Chris you make a litany of very valid points and I instantly regretted using the word offensive and sarcastic comments about Twitter but by the time I'd written the rest of it I just couldn't be arsed and it was time for bed. 

There's a discussion to be had about buildings, statues etc. and several shades of grey surrounding each one. I think at one end of the scale you've got people like Colston who shouldn't have a statue because he was *a slave trader*. He wasn't Lincoln or Washington who were Presidents who happened to own slaves because that was a thing at the time. I know slavery isn't okay now but if they put a statue of Obama up outside the White House or something, and in 200 years it's deemed to be a completely unethical part of society to say, drink alcohol at all or eat meat, then nobody living now (apart from people who hate Obama) would say that it was sensible to have that statue taken down.

One of the things that makes the Colston statue exceptional was that his headline thing in life was the slave trade. It wasn't just something he did because everyone was doing it. This is why taking down Churchill's statue is such a dumb comparison. He said racist things that were more acceptable at the time and there are other controversies surrounding him, but when the question is asked "who was Churchill?" the majority of people wouldn't say "a racist", they'd say "the Prime Minister that stopped the Nazis". This is something to be honoured. Being rich because you profited from slavery and were responsible for thousands of slaves dying is an extreme enough departure to have a statue taken down in my opinion. It's also the fact that it was a statue, which in itself suggests he's being honoured. I'd imagine there's a pretty good chance that plenty of people wouldn't give a shit about the buildings and streets named after Colston and probably wouldn't even know who he was if the statue wasn't there rubbing everyone's noses in it. I might be wrong on that last point as there will obviously be at least some people who still feel as passionate about getting the name removed.

All of the rest is a grey area. For me, the protests need to stop now. They had the big BLM demonstrations in London on one weekend. In the middle of a pandemic asking them to leave it at that is reasonable and also isn't asking them to forget about their cause overall. The protests we saw on Saturday were totally unjustified on any level but hopefully they've got it out of their system now.

Too fat, stamina will be poor, also age is an issue. Basically a poor man's Rooney.

[Mpache]

Anyone hear the Aunt Jemima fiasco?

Don't really get why they are removing her picture. I get she was dressed as a minstrel character but on most brands you can only see her face and you wouldn't even know she was dressed like a slave. I just think this will cause more controversy if anything, because people might get the wrong idea.

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

Anyone hear the Aunt Jemima fiasco?

Don't really get why they are removing her picture. I get she was dressed as a minstrel character but on most brands you can only see her face and you wouldn't even know she was dressed like a slave. I just think this will cause more controversy if anything, because people might get the wrong idea.

Aunt Jemima, if I understand correctly, was a a nickname or reference used for female slave cooks. To be honest I was shocked to learn that.

Genuinely thought Aunt Jemima was the founder of the business. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Cicero said:

Aunt Jemima, if I understand correctly, was a a nickname or reference used for slave cooks. To be honest I was shocked to learn that.

Genuinely thought Aunt Jemima was the founder of the business. 

Exactly what I mean though. Many people think Aunt Jemima is the women for the Quaker brand. Is it appropriate? Not at all. But not many people know that.

My dad was confused as to why they were removing her as he thought it was just because she was black. That's what I mean by getting the wrong idea. People who don't know will believe that the brand is being racist in removing her, and I can guarantee it will be a lot especially with sensationalist headlines these days.

The motivation is good but I don't think many will have noted and it could aggravate things instead.