Frank Lampard Sacked by Chelsea

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Hadn’t Rudiger been playing recently though? 

Yeah since Lampard’s been sacked we’re seeing all kinds of stories come out from his friends in the press about how it’s anyone’s fault but his.

I take this with a handful of salt - seeing loads of inconsistent stories about where it all went wrong for Fat Frank.

[Danny]

6 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Very true but that 'headstart' also brings pressure and expectation beyond most clubs in English football. It's also about fan culture, I remember Graeme Souness remarking that these clubs are institutions, they are more than football clubs and that their fanbase reflects this. That's a different beast from managing a club like Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs, very big clubs in their own right but they don't have that type of following.

Old Firm are two of the biggest clubs in world football, the standard may not be there but Gerrard took on just as much a pressure job as Lampard.

Personally don’t disagree with what you’re saying but seeing the state of some of the managers both have employed in recent years it would be fair to say the Celtic job would be a good learning job for Lampard.

Whether that learning job ends up with him getting the sack who knows.

[Cicero]

Confirmed. 

18 month deal. 

 

[Tommy]

Chelsea fans can be very happy. Tuchel is amazing. 

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Chelsea fans can be very happy. Tuchel is amazing. 

Sure he's a fantastic coach however his past behavior with the board is a concern, no? Especially considering our history with Conte. 

[Scouse_Mouse]

3 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Chelsea fans can be very happy. Tuchel is amazing. 

They will be calling for his head if he doesn't deliver instant success.

That's the way it is at the bridge.

[God is Haaland]

On 25/01/2021 at 13:10, Inverted said:

Considering Dortmund’s current condition, I’m sure a lot of people would say that Tuchel might have been right to clash with the club management. 

 

On 25/01/2021 at 13:20, Rucksackfranzose said:

Well let's ask @God is Haaland, who as a BVB supporter might be a more suitable source to discuss Dortmund's club management than the two of us from afar.

Afair Tuchel wanted to continue, but Watzke and Zorc didn't want him anymore - officially bc he broke the rules by publicly criticising them after the whole terror attack thing. But there are also rumors about him mistreating players. Idk about that.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "clash with the club management". Are you talking about Mislintat? He was just a scout at the time.

[Rucksackfranzose]

3 minutes ago, God is Haaland said:

 

Afair Tuchel wanted to continue, but Watzke and Zorc didn't want him anymore - officially bc he broke the rules by publicly criticising them after the whole terror attack thing. But there are also rumors about him mistreating players. Idk about that.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "clash with the club management". Are you talking about Mislintat? He was just a scout at the time.

Used the word clash to describe Tuchel's relation to Leonardo at PSG, what I said about Dortmund board was that both Zorc and Watzke suggested their relation to Tuchel was broken, when he left, which is correct when my memory doesn't play a trick on me.

 

[God is Haaland]

2 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Used the word clash to describe Tuchel's relation to Leonardo at PSG, what I said about Dortmund board was that both Zorc and Watzke suggested their relation to Tuchel was broken, when he left, which is correct when my memory doesn't play a trick on me.

It is correct. Imo it's not clear who was right or wrong in the relationship between Tuchel and Zorc+Watzke. I disagree with the transfer policy at that time - a lack of proper back ups and strikers in particular. But I also don't agree with how Tuchel treated some of the players, for example I don't think he should have sold Kuba.

[Bluewolf]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

seeing loads of inconsistent stories about where it all went wrong for Fat Frank.

How many times do you need to be told???? it's 'Well Fed' not Fat... 

[Tar-Mairon]

I can understand Chelsea fans being upset/having mixed feelings on this because it's never nice when it goes wrong for a club legend.

I read the Atlantic article and if that is accurate, I feel for him in some ways and not so much in others. I feel for him in the Kepa/Declan Rice situations. Kepa is nowhere close to good enough for a team that wants to challenge for big honours, no matter how much of an arm is put around him, and Lampard obviously felt Rice would be a massive improvement on what he had and it sounds like with those two, he's carried the can for the mistakes of others and that the board are negatively affecting what happens on the pitch as they don't want to look stupid. 

However, if it's true that he was a poor man-manager who has been distant, aloof and stand-offish with many of his players, this is where the sympathy would really end. He knows more than anyone what it's like when a manager loses, alienates or causes cliques in the Chelsea dressing room and you'd think that would be the first thing he's try and avoid as manager. His quote on AVB are also coming back to haunt him, when the same is true for him. I don't blame him for taking it but it was probably way too soon for him, they used him to get them through the period they need him for and then they chucked him. That's life.

I don't think he'll go to Celtic and I can't really see him getting a Premier League job next season. Should Hasenhuttl or Nuno leave Southampton or Wolves, I can't see them going in for him. Palace if Hodgson retires? I can't really see that either. Newcastle will persist with Bruce until it's too late (if they stay up and no takeover, I expect he'll be there next season) and he doesn't want to touch that one, anyway. Perhaps if Newcastle go down, it's an option but I expect either the Championship or abroad is the next step for him. He's an intelligent guy so can see him settling abroad better than some might as a manager.

Tuchel appears to be a good appointment, he's under immediate pressure though. No bedding in, they'll be looking at Top 4 and possibly a trophy this season.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

https://youtu.be/wktwqErPEso

 

Ancelotti is easily the coolest, classiest manager in the league.

[carefreeluke]

7 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

https://youtu.be/wktwqErPEso

 

Ancelotti is easily the coolest, classiest manager in the league.

Probably my all-time favourite Chelsea manager to be honest.

[Scouse_Mouse]

17 minutes ago, Cazza said:

Yes but at Everton with no real aspirations.

That's the thing innit? Everton outspend Liverpool but there is zero pressure on him to succeed.

Whatever happens at Woodison this season is already a success having lasted a couple of weeks longer than Liverpool in the FA Cup.

[The Artful Dodger]

48 minutes ago, Cazza said:

Yes but at Everton with no real aspirations.

They have aspirations a plenty, hence appointing Ancelotti.

[LFCMadLad]

Didn't Ancelotti get sacked at Chelsea for only winning the double? 

[Scouse_Mouse]

18 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

They have aspirations a plenty, hence appointing Ancelotti.

Maybe "expectations" is more accurate than "aspirations"?

Obviously they aspire to be bigger/more successful but most Evertonians aren't going to be holding their breath.

[The Artful Dodger]

35 minutes ago, Cazza said:

keeping Everton in the Premiership is the only goal and probably a flutter in the cup once in five years.... Easy street.

You obviously know nothing of what you speak. Everton’s goal is very much to be in the top 5-6 and compete for trophies. Whether that is achievable is another matter.

 

[RandoEFC+]

38 minutes ago, Cazza said:

keeping Everton in the Premiership is the only goal and probably a flutter in the cup once in five years.... Easy street.

Bang on, that's why we've sacked about 17 managers in the last 5-6 years when we haven't finished lower than 12th. 

Ancelotti speaks very openly about getting into the Champions League and winning trophies. He is completely capable of doing so but dragging a club that's rotted in mediocrity or worse for 20 years isn't an easy task. I'd say he's done pretty well so far. 6 away wins out of 9 and only losing once to a "big" team (Man Utd) this season stands in contrast to most of the "typical Everton" characteristics that have held us back for years, but that could just be down to a lack of fans in stadiums and it being an odd season in general. The work is far from done as evidenced by our turgid quarter final performance against Man Utd in the League Cup.

To suggest a lack of ambition or aspiration is just flat out stupid though. You can question the likelihood of that happening all you want and fair enough, but anyone who's looked at the investment in the management, the squad, the stadium and sees a lack of aspiration needs to seek help. 

The fans are sick of the mediocrity as well, one of the angriest fanbases in the country. At the very least we expect to be in Europe and the first ones lying in wait whenever the "big six" slip up. 25 years without a trophy for a club who have the 4th most league titles of any in the country is deemed disgraceful as well and rightly so.

[Danny]

Everton’s new ownership have made clear plans for progressing into the top 4, failed so far with Koeman, Silva and Allardyce but Ancelotti is a clear statement of intent, as was signing Allan and James. James can be forgiven as being seen as an injured player who lost his way being signed, but Allan was instrumental in a very, very good Napoli side and would walk into most midfields in the league.

The pressure of expectation doesn’t exist at Everton, but you’d either be on a WUM or lack footballing intelligence not to be able to see that they are going for it with him and the signings they made in the Summer.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Cazza said:

It is the same clubs taking the trophies each year maybe this is an English thing, rich get rich the poor stay poor and Everton stay in twelfth.... I'm sure there is inspiration for another season ticket there somewhere.

 

What's your deal? Like do you actually support Luton Town? Are you actually Australian? Based there or in the UK? Because your craic betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of football in the UK. Everton could go another 25 years without a trophy or European football and sell out their season tickets every year. A healthy proportion of Luton Town's fans will have been there every week from Conference to Championship. There's more to a football club than winning trophies. This "why should anyone bother if the same clubs win the trophies all the time" shtick that you seem to be coming with is the polar opposite of football culture in England and Scotland. 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

What's your deal? Like do you actually support Luton Town? Are you actually Australian? Based there or in the UK? Because your craic betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of football in the UK. Everton could go another 25 years without a trophy or European football and sell out their season tickets every year. A healthy proportion of Luton Town's fans will have been there every week from Conference to Championship. There's more to a football club than winning trophies. This "why should anyone bother if the same clubs win the trophies all the time" shtick that you seem to be coming with is the polar opposite of football culture in England and Scotland. 

Mate stop biting.

[Danny]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Bang on, that's why we've sacked about 17 managers in the last 5-6 years when we haven't finished lower than 12th. 

Ancelotti speaks very openly about getting into the Champions League and winning trophies. He is completely capable of doing so but dragging a club that's rotted in mediocrity or worse for 20 years isn't an easy task. I'd say he's done pretty well so far. 6 away wins out of 9 and only losing once to a "big" team (Man Utd) this season stands in contrast to most of the "typical Everton" characteristics that have held us back for years, but that could just be down to a lack of fans in stadiums and it being an odd season in general. The work is far from done as evidenced by our turgid quarter final performance against Man Utd in the League Cup.

To suggest a lack of ambition or aspiration is just flat out stupid though. You can question the likelihood of that happening all you want and fair enough, but anyone who's looked at the investment in the management, the squad, the stadium and sees a lack of aspiration needs to seek help. 

The fans are sick of the mediocrity as well, one of the angriest fanbases in the country. At the very least we expect to be in Europe and the first ones lying in wait whenever the "big six" slip up. 25 years without a trophy for a club who have the 4th most league titles of any in the country is deemed disgraceful as well and rightly so.

I always find this part weird about Everton. Newcastle won most of their league titles before WW1, FA Cups before WW2, one of those clubs that are really only considered big in that they’re a one club city. Aston Villa another club who’s honours list is built up pre-ww1 (bar their success in 1980-82), you then have Spurs who in terms of major silverware weirdly have won almost as much as Everton, just in Cups. 

But Everton were consistent, like Arsenal, always a big club that won major silverware decade upon decade. But throughout my entire lifetime, bar an FA Cup, you’ve been useless. In my eyes you’re a West Ham than don’t get relegated, or you have been. It’s such a drop from what you were. The last 30 years you’ve been no different to a Newcastle, Villa or Leeds who haven’t consistently won silverware in decades. But really you should be around Arsenal’s level.

The comparison between you and Spurs is interesting though, in modern terms they are the bigger club with recent league finishes and the new stadium but overall you edge it with the league titles. But their success in Europe as well as domestic Cups really does hold up, not to turn this into a big club topic but there is a clear divide between Utd Liverpool, Arsenal, you and Spurs and then everyone else.

[Danny]

Just now, Cazza said:

I think this is down to financial clout, How many big Premiership clubs are in debt? Did Leicester spend big when they won the league, I'm not sure but the team ethos seemed to be solid. Considering they were a bit of a yo yo club they seemed to have stabilised and commented themselves in the league  and are currently 3th? That's a hell of an achievement. The success has picked up the fan base and investors.

Leicester has a couple of things go in their favour, statistically they outperformed their xg which explained the drop off in league positions in the seasons after. They then also had Vardy, Kante and Mahrez who are all world class and then unknown. Lastly the league was at its worst, don’t think it’s ever been worse than then. Arsenal and Spurs finished 2nd and 3rd to put it into perspective.

[The Artful Dodger]

38 minutes ago, Cazza said:

As a Hull city fan you speak with much wisdom.... Not. See the post above by @Scouse_Mouse Everton are the archetypical premiership side just happy to sit there and grab the cash and not bother, doing nothing.... mearly just being in that 'useless' section of the ladder that neither comes nor goes.... 

Ladder position for the past ten seasons..... Oops, whoosh!!!!

I’m not sure what the worst past has to do with anything. Look at Everton’s expenditure, who their manager is and who they’re signing. They’re trying to go places. The appointment of Ancelotti entirely disproves your poorly made point.