Administrator Stan 18,383 Posted June 21, 2021 Administrator Share Posted June 21, 2021 VS Kick-off 20.00 (BST) Venue - Wembley, London A draw is good enough for both of these sides. The winner faces the runner-up in Group F (France/Portugal/Germany/Hungary) The runner-up faces the runner-up in Group E (Sweden/Slovakia/Spain/Poland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Wouldn't surprise me if Southgate shithouses this like he did in 2018 and plays a completely different and defensive lineup to try not to win against the Czech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ 3,613 Posted June 21, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted June 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Wouldn't surprise me if Southgate shithouses this like he did in 2018 and plays a completely different and defensive lineup to try not to win against the Czech. Wouldn't it be beneficial for England to finish top of their group to get an easier team in the next round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,383 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mel81x said: Wouldn't it be beneficial for England to finish top of their group to get an easier team in the next round? If we finish top we get France/Portugal/Germany. So don't think it's easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 It’s going to be a painful watch. Not just because of Southgate but the implications and all the bullshit around coming second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Let's have it right both teams in a weird way will be looking at this situation and thinking it suits both teams to finish second in the group. Now I am not suggesting we aren't professional enough to get the job done but the last world cup we faced a similar situation where if we beat Belgium we would face one of the stronger nations. Southgate shuffled the pack and we were beaten by Belgium and we ended up with Colombia in the next round. Can't see the same happening this time round though, I think we'd be stronger if we shuffled the team around as players will be keen to impress and Switzerland are pretty damn average. Losing to Belgium wasn't a disgrace but a draw with Switzerland after Scotland couldn't turn the press against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ 3,613 Posted June 21, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Stan said: If we finish top we get France/Portugal/Germany. So don't think it's easier. Considering what happened in the game against Scotland you'd want these players going into the next round with a win rather than trying to get second which can immensely backfire on you'll should Croatia play a good game against Scotland? Then you're in a more precarious position of getting someone you really don't want to play. I say win it and let the other teams try and push for it even harder. Who cares if you have to play Germany/France/Portugal. All those teams have shown how they can be neutered with the right tactics and its not like England dont have a midfield that can be setup to play that way. It's also not like you wont meet a tough team and if Southgate just wants to delay the inevitable that's a foolish approach imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Mel81x said: Considering what happened in the game against Scotland you'd want these players going into the next round with a win rather than trying to get second which can immensely backfire on you'll should Croatia play a good game against Scotland? Then you're in a more precarious position of getting someone you really don't want to play. I say win it and let the other teams try and push for it even harder. Who cares if you have to play Germany/France/Portugal. All those teams have shown how they can be neutered with the right tactics and its not like England dont have a midfield that can be setup to play that way. It's also not like you wont meet a tough team and if Southgate just wants to delay the inevitable that's a foolish approach imo. To be honest England will only fear Germany, France and Portugal anyway. I think we can take the rest on our day. We are caught between a rock and a hard place, we need to win matches but it seems completely unavoidable we will play one of the three nations we wish to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,383 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted June 21, 2021 35 minutes ago, Mel81x said: Considering what happened in the game against Scotland you'd want these players going into the next round with a win rather than trying to get second which can immensely backfire on you'll should Croatia play a good game against Scotland? Then you're in a more precarious position of getting someone you really don't want to play. I say win it and let the other teams try and push for it even harder. Who cares if you have to play Germany/France/Portugal. All those teams have shown how they can be neutered with the right tactics and its not like England dont have a midfield that can be setup to play that way. It's also not like you wont meet a tough team and if Southgate just wants to delay the inevitable that's a foolish approach imo. But that's the thing - winning doesn't mean you play an 'easier team' in the next round. In fact, winning means you face 2 of the 3 big favourites (France/Portugal) in the next round. I'm not advocating to avoid those teams by the way, just don't agree with what you said initially about who you face if winning the group. I think we should go out to win any game you play, even more so if it's an international tournament. Gives you momentum and at some point you're going to have to beat one of the better sides to win the thing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 There's no point finishing 2nd just to get through one round extra. Just win the group. Looks like it might be Sweden in the quarters anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploughendplonker 32 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 With the recent results, it may not necessarily be easier if we finish 2nd. If Sweden beat Poland, it pushes Spain into second and we'd have to play them. Even if Sweden did drop points to finish 2nd, we'd have to play Sweden in Copenhagen, which isn't that much more appetising than say Germany at Wembley. I think that, if Southgate changes the team a bit, we will win 3 or 4-1, I'll go for 4-1 with Grealish scoring two, Kane scoring a penalty, and Bellingham coming on to score a screamer from the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ 3,613 Posted June 21, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stan said: But that's the thing - winning doesn't mean you play an 'easier team' in the next round. In fact, winning means you face 2 of the 3 big favourites (France/Portugal) in the next round. I'm not advocating to avoid those teams by the way, just don't agree with what you said initially about who you face if winning the group. I think we should go out to win any game you play, even more so if it's an international tournament. Gives you momentum and at some point you're going to have to beat one of the better sides to win the thing anyway. Yeah and when I look at it realistically it was a bad assumption that you would get someone easier if you came first. The rest of what I said though I still stand by, and I think we agree on it too, about playing to win and not trying to play the math game which adds more pressure on the team and forces tactics which can be more disruptive than beneficial in the longer run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,383 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Mel81x said: Yeah and when I look at it realistically it was a bad assumption that you would get someone easier if you came first. The rest of what I said though I still stand by, and I think we agree on it too, about playing to win and not trying to play the math game which adds more pressure on the team and forces tactics which can be more disruptive than beneficial in the longer run. Yes, I think at some point Southgate really does need to 'unleash' the attack on a team and really entertain. It's boring as fuck sticking with the formation that saw us struggle to create against Croatia & Scotland. You have a world-class striker and top-class wingers/attacking midfielders. Southgate really needs to let them play how everyone knows they can and not restrict them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,662 Posted June 21, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted June 21, 2021 In before Kane scores a penalty and the media fall over each other screaming about how he, but more so Southgate, have proven their critics wrong and been vindicated, before the Czechs score a late equaliser and it ends 1-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 21, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted June 21, 2021 Chilwell & Mount out, having to isolate, despite both testing negative. What a pathetic period of time we're living through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 About right that they have to isolate seeing as they were hugging him, think the inconsistencies lie with the wider implication of rules for footballers as you'd think they've been in close contact with the rest of the team. You'd also think that would go for a lot of the Scotland team as well. Chilwell not really a loss and tbh Mount isn't either, played a lot on the left handside for England pushing into the left side of the area and that will be a position Grealish will look to pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Stan said: If we finish top we get France/Portugal/Germany. So don't think it's easier. Yeah but trying to finish second in a group for a potentially easier ride is just such a losers mentality. If you want to win an international tournament, you've got to be ready to go toe to toe with the big nations that have the expectation to progress. If a manager goes out and tries to get second, it sends a pretty shitty mental message to the players tbh - that they should be scared of good sides because they aren't good enough. I know you don't agree with the idea that we should go out of our way to end up in second place and that you think we should try to go out and win every game... so I'm really making a point against a viewpoint that I don't think anyone's really arguing here But I think with all of the question marks around Southgate's competence and the "quality" we've seen on display from this England side, I just would not be surprised if that Scotland game has made them all shit their pants a bit and think "maybe we do want to come second place in this group." And I think that's the exact wrong mentality for this squad of players to have... ...but I also think the display we saw against Scotland also demonstrated the exact sort of mentality we don't want the players to have either. My expectations are really fucking low for this one - which is probably for the best, because it'll mean that it's unlikely Southgate can find a way to disappoint me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 I would rather is finish top and get smacked up by France or Germany than finish second purposely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,827 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 If we dare play to finish 2nd for fear of the next game, we deserve to have our asses handed to us on a silver platter by whomever we play. I'd be embarrassed not to win this group. It's cowardly. Fuck me what do we want? The draw has given us every game at Wembley so far, including the Last 16 game should we win the group. Jesus, we're the only 'host team' afforded that potential luxury of a 'Home game' in the next round. Just go win the game and win it bloody convincingly for a change England. Then whether it's France, Portugal or Germany, so be it. At least we'll be at Wembley, and you'd like to think we'll raise our game for the better opponent. Let's just be thankful we're not playing Italy. That's the one team above all you wouldn't want right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Saka could be given a run out on the right!! Sancho has had 77 goal involvements in three seasons. Why on earth isn't he getting a look in!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Mount and Chiwell will probably miss the knockout fixture too. Not having Mount against France or Germany is going to leave the midfield overrun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, shut up said: You've got to apply farmer's tax remember Bundesliga isn't a farmers league. Decent totals them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, Cicero said: Mount and Chiwell will probably miss the knockout fixture too. Not having Mount against France or Germany is going to leave the midfield overrun. Had him against Scotland and it didn't work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, Danny said: Had him against Scotland and it didn't work out Because England will undoubtedly have 61% possession against France or Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,662 Posted June 22, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted June 22, 2021 Hopefully this game is a half-decent watch but I'm not optimistic. If Southgate was smart he'd rotate the likes of Sancho, Grealish and the others with something to prove into the side because it's a dead rubber in terms of qualification. I don't think there are many circumstances where guaranteeing players their starting spot days before the game regardless of performance is overall the best way to go. I can see why he's done it with Kane, he's the captain and the star player most of the time, and it often happens with goalkeepers, but overall I don't think it sends a great message out to the rest of the players, particularly those that have featured and been mediocre, and those who have been training hard desperate for a chance to impress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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