Russia and Ukraine

[Machado]

3 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Lol because Farage used the term poking the bear you’ve chucked him in this, it’s precisely about Nato, Putin has said as much for 8-9 years. As soon as The pro Russian government collapsed due to protests when they aligned themselves with Russia over the west (still a valid term) he took action. He’s an autocratic ruler with a huge border and the expansion of nato concerns him because it weakens Russian influence and means a larger border would have to be defended which is poking a paranoid man even more.

German and France were reluctant about Ukrainian membership of NATO back in 2008 because they saw this coming. Nato already border them in 5 countries now a huge land border to the south is encircling him, are we surprised he’s going in to foster regime change with a puppet similar to what he has with Belarus?

I disagree. Unfortunately Ukraine needed NATO sooner or later. The fact that the Ukrainians have embraced their democracy and are willing to fight to protect it is what scares Putin to death and the reason for this war. He wants to squash this fledgling democracy before it spreads to Russia. NATO just meant that he couldn't meddle in Ukraine anymore, at least for a long time. It's not about the missiles.

 

This isn't about demonizing Russia either. They are different world views. However to blame this on NATO is an attempt to paint both sides with the same brush which is not accurate. There is one aggressor here and only one.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Machado

[Guest]

@Honey Honey to be honest 99% of the time when Nigel Farage says something its bollocks so the chances were this was gonna  be as well 

[Azeem]

I don't believe this conflict is on ideological grounds ' democracy vs autocracy ' this current Ukrainian government was doing jailing of opposition, bans and whatnot too.

It's a power status and security issue. Simply put when USSR fell Eastern European states went with West, Central Asian states stayed with Russia. Ukraine was caught in the middle. 

Now both NATO and Russia are ok as long it's their advancement towards the other, but big no if it's the other way around and Ukraine is the most substantial of those advancement.

 

[MUFC]

Nato.

[Azeem]

Madness.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

7 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

No. NATO is a defence agreement. It doesn't station troops capable of an offence. 

A Ukrainian membership of NATO brings an end to the ease with which Russia can drive its tanks into Ukraine when it wants. It is symbolic of the end of imperial Russia.

All troops are capable of offence. Just because an agreement says they won't, it doesn't stop them. 

Yes, Putin is doing this because most of Russia is a giant shit hole and he's essentially grabbing land while he can while the getting is good, but don't tell me Nato troops aren't capable of an invasion 

Of course, if NATO actually wanted war with Russia, they'd be doing it right now.  

[Azeem]

Last time a foreign voluntary militia was formed against an aggression from Moscow, it was successful but became very notorious later 

[Stan]

Keep seeing conflicting reports that Ukraine are valiantly defending their city and Russia are being fucked up as a result or alternatively Russia are advancing and about to take over Kyiv, being not far away from in location. 

[Honey Honey]

2 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

All troops are capable of offence. Just because an agreement says they won't, it doesn't stop them. 

Yes, Putin is doing this because most of Russia is a giant shit hole and he's essentially grabbing land while he can while the getting is good, but don't tell me Nato troops aren't capable of an invasion 

Of course, if NATO actually wanted war with Russia, they'd be doing it right now.  

The stationed troops are simply not significant enough in size and capability to launch a meaningful ground invasion. The NATO countries bordering Russia have far larger land armies of their own than the troops that exist there under NATO banners. It's token gesture placements not invasion forces. If any NATO country were to be defended or invade it wouldn't be done off stationed troops.

That's surely clear for all to see. If you want to be picky and argue there's enough Americans, British and French there to take some nearby farms then fine.

Finland is a good example of the nonsense that is spouted about the "threat" of being a NATO member. Finland is a stronger force than most individual states in NATO, they have national service, they buy weapons from NATO and train with NATO. They are members of the European Union. Yet they are not in NATO. As they say they are not a neutral country. The Finns hate Russia and Putin as much as anyone else on this earth. It makes absolutely no military or strategic difference whether they are in NATO or not, yet they are threatened this week with "consequences" if they join. Putin has no legitimate reason to consider Finland in NATO as any form of increased risk to Russia. 

In Putin we have a megalomaniac with an outdated world view that belongs in the 1940s. Why the fuck do we bend over backwards to "understand where he's coming from" we should be tearing down how much of a moron this guy is.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Aladdin said:

Last time a foreign voluntary militia was formed against an aggression from Moscow, it was successful but became very notorious later 

 

history likes repeating itself.   tolerance is a loaded term but intrinsically it is human nature to fight when one set of ideals clash with another.   most of us just get to sit on the fence or cry from our white towers which one is more morally correct.

Russia is not targeting infrastructure which implies they are not wanting to destroy Ukraine but rather assimilate Ukraine back into Soviet Russia.

 

polls in Russia show that around 77% of the population wants a return to Soviet Russia, this is about their pride to get back what the West stripped them of and they will fight for it.     

it is also indicative of the failings of western values, which are being eroded internally by cultural hedonism.   Russia and China have now been emboldened and the West needs to be prepared to fight or will just collapse.   Putin is no Adolf Hitler or Lenin/Stalin, he is just a lap dog that scares the west

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

polls in Russia show that around 77% of the population wants a return to Soviet Russia, this is about their pride to get back what the West stripped them of and they will fight for it.     

Link to poll?

 

Levada Poll

 

CNN poll - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10543865/amp/Half-Russians-believe-RIGHT-use-military-force-Ukraine-NATO-poll-reveals.html

Right to invade Ukraine - 50%

Reunite Ukraine with Russia - 33%

Feel threatened by foreign activity in former Soviet countries - 50%

[OrangeKhrush]

10 minutes ago, Honey Honey said:

Link to poll?

 

Levada Poll

 

CNN poll - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10543865/amp/Half-Russians-believe-RIGHT-use-military-force-Ukraine-NATO-poll-reveals.html

Right to invade Ukraine - 50%

Reunite Ukraine with Russia - 33%

Feel threatened by foreign activity in former Soviet countries - 50%

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/24/75-of-russians-say-soviet-era-was-greatest-time-in-countrys-history-poll-a69735

[Devil-Dick Willie]

1 hour ago, Honey Honey said:

The stationed troops are simply not significant enough in size and capability to launch a meaningful ground invasion. The NATO countries bordering Russia have far larger land armies of their own than the troops that exist there under NATO banners. It's token gesture placements not invasion forces. If any NATO country were to be defended or invade it wouldn't be done off stationed troops.

That's surely clear for all to see. If you want to be picky and argue there's enough Americans, British and French there to take some nearby farms then fine.

Finland is a good example of the nonsense that is spouted about the "threat" of being a NATO member. Finland is a stronger force than most individual states in NATO, they have national service, they buy weapons from NATO and train with NATO. They are members of the European Union. Yet they are not in NATO. As they say they are not a neutral country. The Finns hate Russia and Putin as much as anyone else on this earth. It makes absolutely no military or strategic difference whether they are in NATO or not, yet they are threatened this week with "consequences" if they join. Putin has no legitimate reason to consider Finland in NATO as any form of increased risk to Russia. 

In Putin we have a megalomaniac with an outdated world view that belongs in the 1940s. Why the fuck do we bend over backwards to "understand where he's coming from" we should be tearing down how much of a moron this guy is.

That moron is weeks away from securing significant land for his nation. 

[Stan]

 

[nudge+]

 

[Honey Honey]

2 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/24/75-of-russians-say-soviet-era-was-greatest-time-in-countrys-history-poll-a69735

That article is based on the same polling in the image I shared. It does not show they want a return to the Soviet Union.

Positive Russian views of that era is not the same as wanting to bring back western cold war interpretations of what the Soviet Union was. Certainly not on the scale claimed.

 

1 minute ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

That moron is weeks away from securing significant land for his nation. 

At a significant cost to life, money, order and reputation. A moronic act. 

[Tommy]

"Okay honey, I'm going for a little drive so I can tweet about this war thing." 

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, Tommy said:

"Okay honey, I'm going for a little drive so I can tweet about this war thing." 

'some kind of fight/operation'. hmm I wonder what...

[Waylander]

From Bloomberg news, major US Banks don't want Russia excluded from Swift and here is the interesting part for me,

t might also encourage the development of a SWIFT alternative that could eventually damage the supremacy of the U.S. dollar.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-25/wall-street-counsels-washington-against-kicking-russia-off-swift

This was probably why Johnson hesitated the other day in parliament when this was proposed ,the knock-on effects may even be worse........

[Azeem]

Yeah Russia and China met in November to discuss creating an alternative financial system. 

[MUFC]

7 minutes ago, Aladdin said:

Yeah Russia and China met in November to discuss creating an alternative financial system. 

Is this what Qadhdhāfī tried doing? Creating a hard single currency with African nations?

[Azeem]

14 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Is this what Qadhdhāfī tried doing? Creating a hard single currency with African nations?

Not a single currency but an alternative payment and messaging system in global transactions. 

[Azeem]

Talks finalised in Belarus, all war equipment in Belarus will remain on the ground while negotiations

[Bluebird Hewitt]

 

That's not good.

[MUFC]

6 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

 

That's not good.

WTF.