Will you be watching?

[Tommy]

Just now, OrangeKhrush said:

threatening FIFA, the whole boycott thing, if Germany really wanted to make it a political statement they could have withdrawn at the qualifiers.

Are you lost or something?

The German football federation threatened to take FIFA to court before the first game. 

And the boycott thing is more something from a big part of the German people, who refuse to watch the shitshow. Viewing numbers clearly show that they are serious about it. 

[Panflute]

What I'd really like to know if all Swiss people naturally come across as grade A conmen or it's just something that comes with being a sports administrator. 

[Azeem]

I've been doing some work and traveling so haven't watched much. Saudi Argentina was the last game I watched properly.

[El Profesor]

 Largest TV rating of the year for Brazil vs Serbia on Globo, more than 50 points. And millions more were also watching on streams.

Like I said, unlike in Germany, there's simply no movement in Brazil to boycott the World Cup.

 

 

[Viva la FCB+]

Theres no movement to boycott it over here for thats worth either. I listen to local sports talk radio in and out of my work day they have covered some of the issues and even fifa corruption at times but thats never going to stop the masses. The men's national team has basically never been relevant to put it in some perspective so I think its just easier to put it out of mind and be excited for this I suppose. Im guilty of it for sure as well, I had a blast watching the Belgium Canada match.. although small victory I streamed it....

[Tommy]

8 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

Theres no movement to boycott it over here for thats worth either. I listen to local sports talk radio in and out of my work day they have covered some of the issues and even fifa corruption at times but thats never going to stop the masses. The men's national team has basically never been relevant to put it in some perspective so I think its just easier to put it out of mind and be excited for this I suppose. Im guilty of it for sure as well, I had a blast watching the Belgium Canada match.. although small victory I streamed it....

I can definitely understand that if your country rarely qualifies for a World Cup, that you don't want to miss it. 

[El Profesor]

22 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

Theres no movement to boycott it over here for thats worth either. I listen to local sports talk radio in and out of my work day they have covered some of the issues and even fifa corruption at times but thats never going to stop the masses. The men's national team has basically never been relevant to put it in some perspective so I think its just easier to put it out of mind and be excited for this I suppose. Im guilty of it for sure as well, I had a blast watching the Belgium Canada match.. although small victory I streamed it....

 

The NHL season has already started, right? Is the WC the main topic of debate in sport shows or is it still hockey? 

[Rucksackfranzose]

On 24/11/2022 at 14:41, 6666 said:

The team not being good might be the real reason they're boycotting...

All this misplaced moral superiority and judgement on others just watching football is just for show. Just trying to make themselves feel better. 

Sorry, but that's utter bullshit. Gerfmany's teams at the begin of this millenium were by far worse than that one, still the viewership was impressive. Also in other WC's even group phase matches without German participation had massively higher viewership than these games have this WC. Jealous not everyone has as little morals as you?

[Viva la FCB+]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

I can definitely understand that if your country rarely qualifies for a World Cup, that you don't want to miss it. 

I mean its kind of weird for me to some degree still because Ive just always cheered for Germany. I dont identify as German but my dad was born there so I do have dual citizenship and I grew up watching and following the German national team and the Bundesliga. It is definitely cool to follow Canada in football for once though and Ive never really had to think about it before as Canada is never in the conversation let alone qualifying 

56 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

 

The NHL season has already started, right? Is the WC the main topic of debate in sport shows or is it still hockey? 

Yeah about 20 games in now. Definitely id say at least 3/4's of the radio shows (which usually run in 3 ish hour blocks) still talk about hockey. They do actually have insiders and  some coverage which is amped up a little bit from what the WC coverage usually is. Previous WC's id say maybe one show would have one insider on maybe once or twice a week to cover it kind of thing in the past. Hockey will basically always be #1 here and that isnt changing anytime soon. Although I will say summer is usually a bit different as the hockey season is usually done. This is a bit of a special case.

[Michael]

On 24/11/2022 at 13:56, 6666 said:

Nah. I don't pick and choose when sports and politics are supposedly the same thing. I'm extremely comfortable with that consistent way of thinking.

You're just giving annoying vegan vibes.

This is the thing; we are either going to separate sports and politics or mix sports and politics and be consistent with it. The media has focused so much on the LGBT topic in Qatar, despite the officials in Qatar repeatedly saying that everyone is welcome, including gay people. They just say they want people to respect their culture. But the ironic thing is the lack of consistency with the media.

All this talk of a boycott in some countries. Was there a boycott at the last World Cup that Russia hosted in 2018? Russia had invaded and seized Crimea in 2014 and they have consistently been helping the rebels in the Donbass region since 2014. Where was the actual outcry at the last World Cup? With the knowledge that Russia was causing deaths and fighting in Donbass(which is Ukrainian sovereign territory)? By the way, as for LGBT rights, Russia only loosened its laws regarding this recently and even now there are certain restrictions. 

What about China when they hosted the Winter Olympics in February 2022? Where was the outrage at what they are doing to the Uighur people? Not to mention the other human rights issues that they have? I didn't hear any cries for a boycott of the Olympics in the winter. If we want to involve politics with sport, then we should be consistent and balanced in our critiques of the various countries we are talking about. Not shy away from the bigger powerful countries and pick on the smaller ones.

Also where do we draw the line? Should the USA never host a tournament again for what its dire foreign policy has been like over the years. Just look at the relatively recent examples of Iraq and Afghanistan. 1 million died in Iraq as a result of the US invasion and Afghanistan is in an utter mess. 

We can't have one rule for some and a different rule for others. Personally, I just think we shouldn't be telling other people from other cultures what and what not to do in their own countries. Just as I don't like it when foreigner's come to the UK and try to interfere with our own culture. I prefer to be consistent.

[6666]

57 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Sorry, but that's utter bullshit. Gerfmany's teams at the begin of this millenium were by far worse than that one, still the viewership was impressive. Also in other WC's even group phase matches without German participation had massively higher viewership than these games have this WC. Jealous not everyone has as little morals as you?

It's crazy that you guys got triggered by me saying it must be because Germany aren't good right now. 

I have morals. I'm just not as naive as to think I'm gonna change the world by not watching football. It's moronic to be honest.

You can say nonsense like "they won't like low TV ratings" but is the issue the human rights or the tournament being there? Low TV ratings in Germany or anyone in Europe isn't going to convince them to change their laws.

Also, reality is that the tournament being there has created the discussion. Majority of people boycotting wouldn't care about human rights in Qatar if the tournament wasn't there. And the tournament being there already led to some reforms regarding the rights of migrant workers.

Boycotting doesn't make sense. It might make you feel like you're doing something, and that's the only reason you're probably doing it, but you're not affecting anything regarding human rights in Qatar.

It's not about a lack of morals, it's about not being delusional. Not watching the World Cup probably has less of an effect than a hashtag on twitter.

But no, you must be a hero.

[Rucksackfranzose]

Just now, 6666 said:

It's crazy that you guys got triggered by me saying it must be because Germany aren't good right now. 

I have morals. I'm just not as naive as to think I'm gonna change the world by not watching football. It's moronic to be honest.

You can say nonsense like "they won't like low TV ratings" but is the issue the human rights or the tournament being there? Low TV ratings in Germany or anyone in Europe isn't going to convince them to change their laws.

Also, reality is that the tournament being there has created the discussion. Majority of people boycotting wouldn't care about human rights in Qatar if the tournament wasn't there. And the tournament being there already led to some reforms regarding the rights of migrant workers.

Boycotting doesn't make sense. It might make you feel like you're doing something, and that's the only reason you're probably doing it, but you're not affecting anything regarding human rights in Qatar.

It's not about a lack of morals, it's about not being delusional. Not watching the World Cup probably has less of an effect than a hashtag on twitter.

But no, you must be a hero.

I agree  in one respect, low TV ratings wont have an effect on Qatar and the human rights situation in this country. TV ratings in big markets will have an effect on FIFA, though and  their future income from TV rights. There's a small chance, they change their future potential hosting nations a bit for possible protests, if enough people boycott and their TV income deteriorates, therefore. The child Qatar WC already fell into the well,boycotting this event is about avoiding another tournament in a comparable country.

[Michael]

41 minutes ago, 6666 said:

It's crazy that you guys got triggered by me saying it must be because Germany aren't good right now. 

I have morals. I'm just not as naive as to think I'm gonna change the world by not watching football. It's moronic to be honest.

You can say nonsense like "they won't like low TV ratings" but is the issue the human rights or the tournament being there? Low TV ratings in Germany or anyone in Europe isn't going to convince them to change their laws.

Also, reality is that the tournament being there has created the discussion. Majority of people boycotting wouldn't care about human rights in Qatar if the tournament wasn't there. And the tournament being there already led to some reforms regarding the rights of migrant workers.

Boycotting doesn't make sense. It might make you feel like you're doing something, and that's the only reason you're probably doing it, but you're not affecting anything regarding human rights in Qatar.

It's not about a lack of morals, it's about not being delusional. Not watching the World Cup probably has less of an effect than a hashtag on twitter.

But no, you must be a hero.

I've never missed watching a World Cup and never plan to.

[6666]

11 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

I agree  in one respect, low TV ratings wont have an effect on Qatar and the human rights situation in this country. TV ratings in big markets will have an effect on FIFA, though and  their future income from TV rights. There's a small chance, they change their future potential hosting nations a bit for possible protests, if enough people boycott and their TV income deteriorates, therefore. The child Qatar WC already fell into the well,boycotting this event is about avoiding another tournament in a comparable country.

So it's not really that much of a moralistic endeavour then is it? Mostly just a case of where a tournament is held.

From a football point of view, I don't think it should be in Qatar as it's an international tournament so FIFA has to make sure the host nation works for everyone. Within reason of course as not drinking or having to be more respectful in public shouldn't be big issues.

The "sports washing" angle doesn't make sense though. And when it comes to the human rights angle, I do think it's a good thing that people are pointing out a lack of rights for people in Qatar but you can't link the tournament being there as either being responsible or having a negative affect on human rights there because in reality, it's the opposite.

There's been less trouble in this tournament than when the Euros where mostly in England as well so it has to be said they're doing a better job than we did...

[Rucksackfranzose]

34 minutes ago, 6666 said:

So it's not really that much of a moralistic endeavour then is it? Mostly just a case of where a tournament is held.

From a football point of view, I don't think it should be in Qatar as it's an international tournament so FIFA has to make sure the host nation works for everyone. Within reason of course as not drinking or having to be more respectful in public shouldn't be big issues.

The "sports washing" angle doesn't make sense though. And when it comes to the human rights angle, I do think it's a good thing that people are pointing out a lack of rights for people in Qatar but you can't link the tournament being there as either being responsible or having a negative affect on human rights there because in reality, it's the opposite.

There's been less trouble in this tournament than when the Euros where mostly in England as well so it has to be said they're doing a better job than we did...

Disagree, it had no positive on human rights and I'd argue it had negative affect on the human rights situation of at least those foreign workers, who were employed to build the stadiums. You could argue they wouldn't had worked (and in too many cases died because of their work) there, if it wasn't for the WC. Can see a downside, though: If we want, as I do, the WC played in countries, that are following certain standards of human rights, there remain not many more than two handful of countries that can afford hosting a WC, given how inflated this tournament is going to be.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Disagree, it had no positive on human rights and I'd argue it had negative affect on the human rights situation of at least those foreign workers, who were employed to build the stadiums. You could argue they wouldn't had worked (and in too many cases died because of their work) there, if it wasn't for the WC. Can see a downside, though: If we want, as I do, the WC played in countries, that are following certain standards of human rights, there remain not many more than two handful of countries that can afford hosting a WC, given how inflated this tournament is going to be.

I disagree on the idea that those migrant workers wouldn’t have been in Qatar if there were no WC. Qatar has been doing it for a very long times. Apparently 2 million migrant workers were already in Qatar, worked to death on a stadium would just be worked to death on another project.

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

I disagree on the idea that those migrant workers wouldn’t have been in Qatar if there were no WC. Qatar has been doing it for a very long times. Apparently 2 million migrant workers were already in Qatar, worked to death on a stadium would just be worked to death on another project.

Abusing migrant workers is always bad, but I'm pretty sure building 8 football stadiums from scratch required more migrant workers than usual. 

[Michael]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

I disagree on the idea that those migrant workers wouldn’t have been in Qatar if there were no WC. Qatar has been doing it for a very long times. Apparently 2 million migrant workers were already in Qatar, worked to death on a stadium would just be worked to death on another project.

A question that has to be asked is, why do the migrant workers keep on going there in their droves, if they know it is bad?

[CaaC (John)+]

5 minutes ago, Michael said:

A question that has to be asked is, why do the migrant workers keep on going there in their droves, if they know it is bad?

Money buddy, they can earn more there than they can at home, the same as the channel emigrants paying money to go into a rubber dingy and float across the channel, they know the risks but they still do it.

[nudge+]

4 minutes ago, Michael said:

A question that has to be asked is, why do the migrant workers keep on going there in their droves, if they know it is bad?

Are you for real?... Because poor desperate people do desperate things to earn a living and support their families, especially when they get promised a decent salary in Gulf countries while facing unemployment, debt and low wages at home. When you don't have many options, you take what's available to you, even knowing the risks.

[6666]

The Qataris are probably delighted that these types of fans were put off from going to Qatar...

 

 

[Michael]

55 minutes ago, nudge said:

Are you for real?... Because poor desperate people do desperate things to earn a living and support their families, especially when they get promised a decent salary in Gulf countries while facing unemployment, debt and low wages at home. When you don't have many options, you take what's available to you, even knowing the risks.

Well, this is exactly it. The answer was obvious, but an important one to analyse. Clearly Qatar needs to improve the working conditions for these migrants, which I believe that they have done to a large extent from the reports I've seen. But we also need to look at the countries these migrants come from. Shouldn't their own countries be doing more for them? Shouldn't they be given a better quality of life than they are actually given by their own leaders. Shouldn't their own governments try to stop being so corrupt? Shouldn't we in the 1st world actually be doing much more to help these countries? Shouldn't some Western countries stop intervening negatively in some of these countries? There are lots of questions to be asked.

[nudge+]

13 minutes ago, Michael said:

Well, this is exactly it. The answer was obvious, but an important one to analyse. Clearly Qatar needs to improve the working conditions for these migrants, which I believe that they have done to a large extent from the reports I've seen. But we also need to look at the countries these migrants come from. Shouldn't their own countries be doing more for them? Shouldn't they be given a better quality of life than they are actually given by their own leaders. Shouldn't their own governments try to stop being so corrupt? Shouldn't we in the 1st world actually be doing much more to help these countries? Shouldn't some Western countries stop intervening negatively in some of these countries? There are lots of questions to be asked.

Poverty is a complex issue and lots of question can be asked about shared responsibilities and how to make it better, yes. But that's not really the issue we've been talking about here, no? Regardless of how many questions you raise about poverty, it still shouldn't deflect from the fact that Qatar, as well as most other Gulf countries, have been exploiting and taking advantage of extremely vulnerable people for decades. I'm glad certain improvements have been made, but the reforms aren't worth much if the government isn't enforcing the new laws effectively and if there is no accountability. 

[Spike]

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

Abusing migrant workers is always bad, but I'm pretty sure building 8 football stadiums from scratch required more migrant workers than usual. 

2 million wasn’t enough?

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 26/11/2022 at 04:23, Michael said:

Well, this is exactly it. The answer was obvious, but an important one to analyse. Clearly Qatar needs to improve the working conditions for these migrants, which I believe that they have done to a large extent from the reports I've seen. But we also need to look at the countries these migrants come from. Shouldn't their own countries be doing more for them? Shouldn't they be given a better quality of life than they are actually given by their own leaders. Shouldn't their own governments try to stop being so corrupt? Shouldn't we in the 1st world actually be doing much more to help these countries? Shouldn't some Western countries stop intervening negatively in some of these countries? There are lots of questions to be asked.

Yes the first would should stop intervening negatively in these countries and playing their part in the systems of corruption that plague parts of the world.

But then I think you’d see the price of basically everything go up… and honestly these first world countries often don’t have the answers to tackling poverty themselves.

But like @nudge said, looking “big picture” at the causes of the problem itself… it doesn’t really address the issue as it is currently.

And that issue is Qatar is a fantastically wealthy country, that literally relies on these migrants to function on a day to day basis (seriously, go look up how much of the population of Qatar is actually Qatari…). Despite this fantastic wealth, they’ve made the choice to be cruelly exploitative to the migrants they depend on.

I think it’s made all the more fucked up given that Qatar aren’t exactly short of the resources to make life… not shit…