How did they ruin it now?

[Mel81x+]

Let's face it, we've all either watched a video where someone has butchered a dish that we know and love or worse we've been to a restaurant to see something we know get absolutely misrepresented. I figure we've got so many stories why not share them on here. I'll go first with what is considered our national dish and there's tons of videos on YT and elsewhere of folks (both amateur and professional) 100% fucking this up. I can also safely say that I have never eaten this dish outside India and said it was good. On with the show. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Amatriciana. Go eat that in Rome and enjoy.

Then go eat that anywhere else that makes it in the world and watch how badly they fuck it up. And just know that whenever you're not in Rome, the only place you'll get it done right is probably in your kitchen.

Now go to the top of my post and replace the word "amatriciana" with "carbonara" and low and behold... the statement is just as accurate.

[Tommy]

When they use cream in Carbonara. 

Or call anything that is tomato with minced meat a Bolognese. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Tommy said:

When they use cream in Carbonara. 

Or call anything that is tomato with minced meat a Bolognese. 

Honestly most Italian food you can buy at a restaurant is an abomination compared to what they're pretending they're serving.

[Spike]

I really don’t care for this sort of shit. Anyone that thinks food is a static idea that can’t or shouldn’t change with the people, ingredients, location, and times is just a food fascist masturbating to themselves on the idea of what something ‘should be’, it’s the same as people that bully or shame food based on their class, culture, or religion. 

Yeah, American cafes butcher the flat white coffee, who gives a shit? It’s all just a variation, extrapolation, riff, modification of something else. You want food purity? Go eat some unprocessed grains and a hunk or burnt meat in a cave.

I do agree it sucks paying money for a shitty facsimile. 

Edited April 11 by Spike

[Mel81x+]

I think it all really boils to down to paying for something that tastes horrible and has no semblance to the original that gets me. The rest of variation, etc. I can live with but sometimes you'll go see something that isn't even close to the original and where it's from and wonder why you paid for it. That video I posted isn't just a butter chicken gone wrong from experimentation it's a butter chicken that imo would turn inedible super-fast considering how it's made. 

[Coma+]

On 10/04/2024 at 20:19, Spike said:

I really don’t care for this sort of shit. Anyone that thinks food is a static idea that can’t or shouldn’t change with the people, ingredients, location, and times is just a food fascist masturbating to themselves on the idea of what something ‘should be’, it’s the same as people that bully or shame food based on their class, culture, or religion. 

Yeah, American cafes butcher the flat white coffee, who gives a shit? It’s all just a variation, extrapolation, riff, modification of something else. You want food purity? Go eat some unprocessed grains and a hunk or burnt meat in a cave.

 

ya right fahkin' too right cobber

Edited April 17 by Coma

[Whiskey]

As much as it's not technically what the OP is asking I guess, after eating any Italian food in Italy and then eating it anywhere else is worlds apart. I know that eating any dish in its home country is different but seriously, you're not eating pizza in England. 

[Dan+]

I still eat pizza here. Well aware it isn't the same as having it in Italy but it isn't like you can't have what's generally a nice dish that's quite hard to get completely wrong. I'll always unfortunately be a sucker for that greasy meat feast pizza. Probably explains quite a lot.

Very much on the anti pineapple bandwagon though. Just thoroughly unpleasant.

[Danny]

Ever since I had steak in San Sebastian anything I’ve had in England has just tasted like balls…at least we’ve got chicken

[Mel81x+]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

Very much on the anti pineapple bandwagon though. Just thoroughly unpleasant.

@Tommy you have more to add to the clan. 

[Michael]

5 hours ago, Dan said:

I still eat pizza here. Well aware it isn't the same as having it in Italy but it isn't like you can't have what's generally a nice dish that's quite hard to get completely wrong. I'll always unfortunately be a sucker for that greasy meat feast pizza. Probably explains quite a lot.

Very much on the anti pineapple bandwagon though. Just thoroughly unpleasant.

I completely agree with your sentiments. 

[Harry]

On 11/04/2024 at 10:19, Spike said:

I really don’t care for this sort of shit. Anyone that thinks food is a static idea that can’t or shouldn’t change with the people, ingredients, location, and times is just a food fascist masturbating to themselves on the idea of what something ‘should be’, it’s the same as people that bully or shame food based on their class, culture, or religion. 

Yeah, American cafes butcher the flat white coffee, who gives a shit? It’s all just a variation, extrapolation, riff, modification of something else. You want food purity? Go eat some unprocessed grains and a hunk or burnt meat in a cave.

I do agree it sucks paying money for a shitty facsimile. 

There's a lot to be said for creative licence in cooking. I love doing things different and seeing what the result will be. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 18/04/2024 at 05:37, Harry said:

There's a lot to be said for creative licence in cooking. I love doing things different and seeing what the result will be. 

 

My gripe with Italian food outside of Italy isn't so much the "creative license" with cooking. It's that going to an Italian restaurant outside of Italy means paying a premium for an inferior product, that you're typically being told is authentic (when it isn't). I can understand when a restaurant substitutes something that is harder to find outside of Italy with something easier to find (for instance, using pancetta rather than guanciale - because guanciale is difficult to get outside of Italy and if that's really what you want, you may have to pay a premium). I can understand when places want to put their own "twist" on something traditional, after all - fusion foods are popular for good reason and they do make the culinary world more exciting and interesting.

But paying a premium for food that is lower quality than what it's trying to be, because we're told it's fancy and difficult to make... when it isn't - that's something I struggle to justify. Especially when I've eaten very good food in Italy and paid reasonable prices. It blows my mind to pay what I would pay for a 4 course meal in Rome... on a pasta meal that's ok at best. It honestly is infuriating.

For me, going out to a restaurant - I'm either looking for: 1.) something I can't make well myself, 2.) something that if I can make it well myself, I want it to be made for me better than I can do it. For Italian food outside of Italy... I think anyone except people who are possibly the most useless people in the kitchen, can cook a better meal than they can get in a restaurant. There's this Italian bloke living in Australia, he's got a great youtube channel (Vincenzo's plate I believe is the name of the channel)... he's been a life saver for me. Because I like cooking, I love Italian food, and eating Italian food at restaurants has been a massive disappointment. Shit he's taught me, aside from traditional recipes, has been so useful at me putting my own twist on certain meals... and it just has completely removed my desire to ever go out and get Italian food here. And that's great for me, because I feel like I'm not getting ripped off if I'm eating Italian food and I'm not in Italy.

So I don't think of it so much as "food purity" so much as I think that (most) Italian restaurants outside Italy (and in my personal experience, all of the ones I've had) are just ripping off customers and providing a comparatively low quality meal in the process. I don't think it's being a food purist to think paying over $20 for a carbonara using cheap spaghetti and substituting guanciale with bacon is an absolute ripoff... when you can make the same thing at home for less than half the price using slightly better spaghetti and substituting the guanciale with pancetta. That's just preferring better ingredients and paying a more reasonable price for a better meal. Neither are "traditional" or "autentico" - but the cheaper one not made at a restaurant using better ingredients is going to get you a better result.

[Danny]

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

My gripe with Italian food outside of Italy isn't so much the "creative license" with cooking. It's that going to an Italian restaurant outside of Italy means paying a premium for an inferior product,

Tapas. Spend double the price in the UK and get half the flavour.

You just need a good culture of people wanting that specific food to get it right. Even something as bland as British food, if you go to Australia they cannot serve a fry up, roast dinner or fish and chips to save their lives. The fry ups are generally lacking in quantity and quality, the roasts just lack quality and they don't serve chip shop chips with the fish, always fries or steak cut.

Obviously you don't go all the way to Aus to eat like you're in the UK and instead take advantage of the great meat and produce they have out there. But yeah, unless you have large communities from a specific area then the food just won't be that great. Obviously there are large groups of Brits in Aus, but we're shit at cooking anyway so they're never going to get the things we end up doing mildly well lol.

Living in London I would never really go for Italian food tbh. But you can find good food from across South Asian communities, great Turkish restaurants, Caribbean food and really good African cuisines too. I generally find the difference between these types of restaurants and say an Italian is that these restaurants will attract people from their ethnic background in the local community, so the food has to be good, but a lot of Italian restaurants or Spanish will likely attract more Brits than anyone so the standards don't have to be so high. I think if you're after a good Italian in London you're best heading into East London where you will likely find restaurants that come from old Italian communities. Interestingly, and maybe @Stan has some insight, Bedford is meant to have a big Italian community that settled after the war.

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

I think if you're after a good Italian in London you're best heading into East London where you will likely find restaurants that come from old Italian communities. Interestingly, and maybe @Stan has some insight, Bedford is meant to have a big Italian community that settled after the war.

100%. Massive Italian community and one of the largest in Europe outside of Italy itself. 

It's a very well-respected community, too, given the amount of small businesses/restaurants/shops that are in & around the town.

There's some highly-rated Italian restaurants so if anyone ever does visit to explore it I'm happy to give recommendations. Others are just run-of-the-mill but still good. 

[Viva la FCB+]

18 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

My gripe with Italian food outside of Italy isn't so much the "creative license" with cooking. It's that going to an Italian restaurant outside of Italy means paying a premium for an inferior product, that you're typically being told is authentic (when it isn't). I can understand when a restaurant substitutes something that is harder to find outside of Italy with something easier to find (for instance, using pancetta rather than guanciale - because guanciale is difficult to get outside of Italy and if that's really what you want, you may have to pay a premium). I can understand when places want to put their own "twist" on something traditional, after all - fusion foods are popular for good reason and they do make the culinary world more exciting and interesting.

But paying a premium for food that is lower quality than what it's trying to be, because we're told it's fancy and difficult to make... when it isn't - that's something I struggle to justify. Especially when I've eaten very good food in Italy and paid reasonable prices. It blows my mind to pay what I would pay for a 4 course meal in Rome... on a pasta meal that's ok at best. It honestly is infuriating.

For me, going out to a restaurant - I'm either looking for: 1.) something I can't make well myself, 2.) something that if I can make it well myself, I want it to be made for me better than I can do it. For Italian food outside of Italy... I think anyone except people who are possibly the most useless people in the kitchen, can cook a better meal than they can get in a restaurant. There's this Italian bloke living in Australia, he's got a great youtube channel (Vincenzo's plate I believe is the name of the channel)... he's been a life saver for me. Because I like cooking, I love Italian food, and eating Italian food at restaurants has been a massive disappointment. Shit he's taught me, aside from traditional recipes, has been so useful at me putting my own twist on certain meals... and it just has completely removed my desire to ever go out and get Italian food here. And that's great for me, because I feel like I'm not getting ripped off if I'm eating Italian food and I'm not in Italy.

So I don't think of it so much as "food purity" so much as I think that (most) Italian restaurants outside Italy (and in my personal experience, all of the ones I've had) are just ripping off customers and providing a comparatively low quality meal in the process. I don't think it's being a food purist to think paying over $20 for a carbonara using cheap spaghetti and substituting guanciale with bacon is an absolute ripoff... when you can make the same thing at home for less than half the price using slightly better spaghetti and substituting the guanciale with pancetta. That's just preferring better ingredients and paying a more reasonable price for a better meal. Neither are "traditional" or "autentico" - but the cheaper one not made at a restaurant using better ingredients is going to get you a better result.

Ive been to a couple of the higher tier Italian restaurants here and actually found the quality pretty good, relatively speaking. I mean I dont care what they say you cannot import tomatoes that taste like that for example. The one major difference for me was price though. A couple of the best meals we had where probably half the price including desert and a bottle of wine and thats even with our Canadian dollar being shite to the euro. I get it though theres alot of "italian" restaurants that are just whatever, that just arent even remotely the same. Pasta isnt really pasta and your bolognese example rings so true 

[Gunnersaurus]

On 10/04/2024 at 22:32, Tommy said:

When they use cream in Carbonara. 

Or call anything that is tomato with minced meat a Bolognese. 

I was working in a hotel a few years ago and the head chef asked me to make a carbonara for staff food with cream. I said OK but I'm not calling it carbonara. There was an Italian waitress and if I called it carbonara she would kill me 

Edited June 26 by Gunnersaurus