James McClean Poppy Thread 2018

[Dave]

I know what you're thinking. Hopefully next year he will become so irrelevant nobody will speak about it. That said, he's been getting quite a bit of media attention for his poppy stance (again) even though his stance hasn't changed since his Sunderland debut.

Now, my understanding is that he does not want to wear a poppy because it remembers every soldier that has participated in every war. He's quite passionate about 28 people shot in Ireland during a peaceful protest by British soldiers in which 14 people died as 6 people were from his estate. His attitude is one of if it was for remembering the two world wars only, he'd wear a poppy every year. I may be wrong, but that's how I remember the story which seems fair enough to me.

Anyway, what's your take on it?

[Stan]

Same shit, different year.

It's his personal choice. Leave him free to make that one. Why does this become an issue every single year?!

[Inverted]

26 minutes ago, Stan said:

Same shit, different year.

It's his personal choice. Leave him free to make that one. Why does this become an issue every single year?!

Theres too much money to be made selling hate to Gammons.

[Dan+]

The only positive of this discussion is it means Christmas is coming. Done to death. Every year.

[Danny]

Think that's fairly spot on, media target him every year for it.

The Poppy is about rememberance, yet the media use it to point score, create public disgust and essentially sell papers.

Newest one is the outrage over the white poppy (similar to the Cambridge student meeting that was blown out of proportion) where it is used to remember everyone that died, not just British soldiers. Already seen a copy and paste Facebook post moaning about it being a leftist organisation and to unfriend them if the poppy "offends" you.

I'd rather it wasn't publicly advertised/spoken about in all honesty. They're nice things to use and can be charitable as well, but you don't need a poppy to remember the dead.

[tlr]

Catholic and probable republican who grew up in 1980s Derry doesn't wish to wear a symbol heavily associated with the British armed forces. The shock of it all.

 

Same shite, different year. I have a lot of respect for how he conducts himself about it.

[Spike]

4 hours ago, Inverted said:

Theres too much money to be made selling hate to Gammons.

I can't, and will never take anyone seriously that uses this word.  It's a black-fulla word where I am from.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I had never heard it before. So I looked it up.

Gammon

'A term used to describe a particular type of Brexit-voting, europhobic middle-aged white male, whose meat-faced complexion suggests they are perilously close to a stroke.

The term 'gammon' is linked to the unhealthy pink skin tone of such stout yeomen, probably because of high blood pressure caused by decades of 'PC gone mad', being defeated in arguments about the non-existent merits of Brexit and women getting the vote.

Gammon often make their appearance on BBC's Question Time jabbing their porcine fingers at the camera while demanding immediate nuclear strikes against Remain-voting areas, people who eat vegetables and/or cyclists.'

 

[Smiley Culture]

Do people a) still care that James McClean doesn’t wear a poppy and b) still get angry that he doesn’t wear a poppy?

 

[Dave]

10 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Do people a) still care that James McClean doesn’t wear a poppy and b) still get angry that he doesn’t wear a poppy?

 

Clearly so.

[Fairy In Boots]

7 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I had never heard it before. So I looked it up.

Gammon

'A term used to describe a particular type of Brexit-voting, europhobic middle-aged white male, whose meat-faced complexion suggests they are perilously close to a stroke.

The term 'gammon' is linked to the unhealthy pink skin tone of such stout yeomen, probably because of high blood pressure caused by decades of 'PC gone mad', being defeated in arguments about the non-existent merits of Brexit and women getting the vote.

Gammon often make their appearance on BBC's Question Time jabbing their porcine fingers at the camera while demanding immediate nuclear strikes against Remain-voting areas, people who eat vegetables and/or cyclists.'

 

It’s only been popular about 12 months.  Hard lefty types tend use it to label anyone who doesn’t agree with them. The irony of them stereotyping a ethnic group escapes them. Inverted has called it me once or twice. 

On topic: his preference and he’s not overtly disrespectful towards people, he just doesn’t partake. Sells papers though so it gets annually recycled. 

The White poppy is very different because it’s from the PPU a bunch of anti war Nazi appeasement cock suckers that actually argued for the surrender of larger parts of Europe such as Poland & France to Hitler. It also as an organisation was fairly heavily involved with the facists at the time to. 

That’s why the white poppy is wrong, the Red poppy is ran by the British legion as a way to remember & raise funds it’s “not your for or against Britain” as many try to make it. 

It’s really simple, it’s a symbol of rememberance for all those men & women of all states who’ve fought on the side of The British army in any conflict however legitimate it may have been or not been. By wearing the poppy we  remember that they did their duty ultimately at the cost of their own lives. 

It’s not a political tool however much both sides of the debate try to play snog marry avoid with it, it just shows both sides to be cunts frankly. 

I’m against the Iraq & Afghan war but I wear the poppy to remember those men & women who’s lives were taken or irrevocably changed by that conflict because they ultimately pay the price for polictians decisions. The proceeds of the poppies go to schemes designed to help their loved ones or them themselves cope after the war has finished and they try to pick up the pieces of their lives. 

You can be against war but that doesn’t mean you have to be against the people that fought or were victims themselves of it. 

[Smiley Culture]

Never heard of a white poppy before this year in all honesty. Thought it was a fake thing shared on Facebook by brain dead EDL, Football Lads Alliance types. Apparently not. Can’t ever remember seeing one being worn either.

[Inverted]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

It’s only been popular about 12 months.  Hard lefty types tend use it to label anyone who doesn’t agree with them. The irony of them stereotyping a ethnic group escapes them. Inverted has called it me once or twice. 

On topic: his preference and he’s not overtly disrespectful towards people, he just doesn’t partake. Sells papers though so it gets annually recycled. 

The White poppy is very different because it’s from the PPU a bunch of anti war Nazi appeasement cock suckers that actually argued for the surrender of larger parts of Europe such as Poland & France to Hitler. It also as an organisation was fairly heavily involved with the facists at the time to. 

That’s why the white poppy is wrong, the Red poppy is ran by the British legion as a way to remember & raise funds it’s “not your for or against Britain” as many try to make it. 

It’s really simple, it’s a symbol of rememberance for all those men & women of all states who’ve fought on the side of The British army in any conflict however legitimate it may have been or not been. By wearing the poppy we  remember that they did their duty ultimately at the cost of their own lives. 

It’s not a political tool however much both sides of the debate try to play snog marry avoid with it, it just shows both sides to be cunts frankly. 

I’m against the Iraq & Afghan war but I wear the poppy to remember those men & women who’s lives were taken or irrevocably changed by that conflict because they ultimately pay the price for polictians decisions. The proceeds of the poppies go to schemes designed to help their loved ones or them themselves cope after the war has finished and they try to pick up the pieces of their lives. 

You can be against war but that doesn’t mean you have to be against the people that fought or were victims themselves of it. 

It's not a stereotype of an ethnic group, it's a stereotype of a particular social outlook and OTT patriotism. Plus, it actually comes from Dickens:

Quote

 

"The general impression seemed to be, that as an explanation of Mr Gregsbury’s political conduct, it did not enter quite enough into detail; and one gentleman in the rear did not scruple to remark aloud, that, for his purpose, it savoured rather too much of a ‘gammon’ tendency.”

“’The meaning of that term – gammon,’ said Mr Gregsbury, ‘is unknown to me. If it means that I grow a little too fervid, or perhaps even hyperbolical, in extolling my native land, I admit the full justice of the remark. I AM proud of this free and happy country. My form dilates, my eye glistens, my breast heaves, my heart swells, my bosom burns, when I call to mind her greatness and her glory.”

 

I can imagine the Daily Mail headline:

"Lefty SNOWFLAKE "novelist", Charles DICKens - anti-white RACIST, or unpatriotic TRAITOR?"

 

And the irony of pulling the victimisation/offense card obviously doesn't escape you.

Edit: I also appreciate your point that it should be a neutral symbol of remembrance, and that there's no inherent message to them except that. But the reality is that symbols take on and develop meaning by how the public treats them - no symbol has any meaning except that which we agree on.

I think in modern Britain, the poppy has taken on a meaning well beyond what it was intended to. It's a shame, but you can't have a neutral symbol of remembrance for war dead and wounded in a country as woefully misinformed as ours. Most people probably think that WW1 was just round 1 of Britain vs the Nazis, rather than the biggest and most senseless calamity in our country's history. Most people are not remotely aware of our military's activities throughout the 20th century like in Kenya in the 1950s, or Iraq in the 1920s. Most people aren't aware that British attaches and advisers are in Saudi Arabia right now helping their airforce use their shiny new British weapons to blow Yemeni kids to smithereens. 

We lack the national maturity to understand such a symbol as it was meant to be, and so in my opinion it has devolved into a symbol of nationalism and glorification. But I wish it was the way you say it is, and I would happily wear one if it was.

And I still have absolutely no issues with putting some change into a British Legion tin if I see one.

[The Artful Dodger]

The whole 'Gammon' thing is a bit childish, if not necessarily racist. It's just name calling really.

I'm not for or against the poppy, it has a wider history than just the British military but I rarely ever buy one. I tend to agree with Jon Snow, it's hijacked by people who use it to show how patriotic they are without very little care or understanding about what actually happened in any of these wars. The heroic narrative is pushed by many but it's really just a tragic, cold story which remains when you strip back all the bravado.

 

[Honey Honey]

He didn't grow up in 1980s Derry. All he has realistic experience of is peacetime. Northern Ireland today has a big problem with inherited hate and antagonism. It's the antithesis of the peace movement. Young males are the most vulnerable to inherting it and they're the number 1 social problem in Northern Ireland in the last 5 years. 

The white poppy is also a deliberate act of antagonism. All of this sort of stuff tends to come with some explanation designed to mask what it's really about. Spoiler, it's not about a moral high ground and righteous act.

If the poppy has been taken over by certain types of people then that will be intensified by others dropping it. To stigmatise something is one mechanism of social control but one other is to actually take it back from them. I suspect in most cases those who complain about the symbolism of the poppy don't actually want it back anyway.

Stigma and making something untouchable is flavour of the day. We can speculate on why but its overuse and misuse is all around us.

[Fairy In Boots]

7 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

Never heard of a white poppy before this year in all honesty. Thought it was a fake thing shared on Facebook by brain dead EDL, Football Lads Alliance types. Apparently not. Can’t ever remember seeing one being worn either.

No it’s very old, pre dates WW2 the PPU are quite unsavoury considering their supposed to be pacifist. I suspect it probably got hijacks by Anti establishment types with a hatred for the U.K. 

7 hours ago, Inverted said:

It's not a stereotype of an ethnic group, it's a stereotype of a particular social outlook and OTT patriotism. Plus, it actually comes from Dickens:

I can imagine the Daily Mail headline:

"Lefty SNOWFLAKE "novelist", Charles DICKens - anti-white RACIST, or unpatriotic TRAITOR?"

 

And the irony of pulling the victimisation/offense card obviously doesn't escape you.

Edit: I also appreciate your point that it should be a neutral symbol of remembrance, and that there's no inherent message to them except that. But the reality is that symbols take on and develop meaning by how the public treats them - no symbol has any meaning except that which we agree on.

I think in modern Britain, the poppy has taken on a meaning well beyond what it was intended to. It's a shame, but you can't have a neutral symbol of remembrance for war dead and wounded in a country as woefully misinformed as ours. Most people probably think that WW1 was just round 1 of Britain vs the Nazis, rather than the biggest and most senseless calamity in our country's history. Most people are not remotely aware of our military's activities throughout the 20th century like in Kenya in the 1950s, or Iraq in the 1920s. Most people aren't aware that British attaches and advisers are in Saudi Arabia right now helping their airforce use their shiny new British weapons to blow Yemeni kids to smithereens. 

We lack the national maturity to understand such a symbol as it was meant to be, and so in my opinion it has devolved into a symbol of nationalism and glorification. But I wish it was the way you say it is, and I would happily wear one if it was.

And I still have absolutely no issues with putting some change into a British Legion tin if I see one.

In fairness it’s not pulling the victim card, just pointing out the irony of stereotyping a group is alive on both sides.

I actually agree mainly on the rest of your post. I think a huge part is we have a dogshit poor history curriculum and most people’s idea of the last 150 - 200 years comes from Dad’s army, the Dambusters, the great escape & the Sun newspaper. 

It’s a shame history and British military history is fascinating and we call learn a lot from the mistakes of yesterday. 

A great example is I bet the vast majority of people under 40 couldn’t tell you when when & how NATO was formed and that’s criminal considering it’s played a part in virtually all conflicts we’ve been involved with post WW2

 

[Spike]

Accusing people of 'victim blaming', 'playing the victim', victim this, victim that, is bloody well tiring. In fact reading the standard lefty-righty dichotomy on here is fucking painful, particularly from members that may not necessarily be subscribing to either or any ideology. Stripped down to it's naked body it's just arrogant namecalling. 

ur gammon!
ur a snowflake!
nazi!
PC!
fascist!
commie!

Fuck off.

[Dave]

Stoke's James McClean has criticised the FA for investigating his clash with supporters over not wearing a Remembrance poppy, accusing them of a double standard.

Both the FA and Stoke are looking into McClean's clash with both Middlesbrough and his own fans on Saturday and subsequent social media post, which lambasting those in the stands he deems "uneducated cavemen" for criticising his decision.

But the Republic of Ireland international has questioned why the FA is getting involved and says he has suffered "sectarian abuse" for years that has gone unpunished by the governing body.

Posting another message on social media on Monday, McClean said: "The FA are investigating me after Saturday's event - for what, exactly?

"Yet week in, week out for the past seven years, I get constant sectarian abuse, death threats, objects being thrown, chanting which is heard loud and clear every week which my family, wife and kids have to listen to, they turn a blind eye and not a single word or condemnation of any sort.

James McClean has explained his reasons for not wearing a poppy on his shirt, which he has done every year since making the move to England

"Huddersfield away last year while playing (for) West Brom where there was an incident with their fans which was on the game highlights where the cameras clearly caught it, yet the FA - when complaint was made to them - said there 'was not enough evidence'.

"If it was a person's skin colour or if it was anti-Muslim, someone's gender, there would be an uproar and it would be taken in a completely different way and dealt with in a different manner.

"But like in Neil Lennon's case in Scotland, because we are Irish Catholics, they turn a blind eye and nothing is ever said and done."

Sky Sports News has contacted the FA for a response to McClean's latest outburst but they are yet to comment.

The Republic of Ireland international has consistently made the decision not to wear a poppy on his shirt and again explained his reasons for that decision before Friday's game.

He was backed by Stoke, who he signed for from West Brom over the summer, but that did not stop the negative reaction when he came on as a late substitute.

[ScoRoss]

Seemingly Nemanja Matic also wasn't wearing a poppy?

[Dave]

2 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Seemingly Nemanja Matic also wasn't wearing a poppy?

Yep as it reminds him of his village being bombed. Another justifiable reason.

[ScoRoss]

8 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Yep as it reminds him of his village being bombed. Another justifiable reason.

Just noting the difference in media coverage. When you think one is playing for Man United and the other is in the Football League...

[CaaC (John)+]

22 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Seemingly Nemanja Matic also wasn't wearing a poppy?

 

20 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Yep as it reminds him of his village being bombed. Another justifiable reason.

 

11 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Just noting the difference in media coverage. When you think one is playing for Man United and the other is in the Football League...

Nemanja Matic: Man Utd midfielder explains why he will not wear a poppy 

4 hours ago | Man Utd

Nemanja Matic says he will not wear a poppy on his Manchester United shirt because it reminds him of when his village was bombed when he was 12.

The bombing, in 1999, was part of a Nato-led offensive to drive out Serbian forces from Kosovo.

Matic was the only United player not wearing a poppy during their 2-1 victory over Bournemouth on Saturday.

The Serb, 30, released a statement on Instagram in which he said he respected the right of people to wear poppies.

But he said he would again not wear one for this weekend's Manchester derby, which will take place on Remembrance Sunday.

In his statement, Matic said: "I recognise fully why people wear poppies, I totally respect everyone's right to do so and I have total sympathy for anyone who has lost loved ones due to conflict.

"However, for me, it is only a reminder of an attack that I felt personally as a young, frightened 12-year old boy living in Vrelo, as my country was devastated by the bombing of Serbia in 1999.

"Whilst I have done so previously, on reflection I now don't feel it is right for me to wear the poppy on my shirt.

"I do not want to undermine the poppy as a symbol of pride within Britain or offend anyone, however, we are all a product of our own upbringing and this is a personal choice for the reasons outlined.

"I hope everyone understands my reasons now that I have explained them and I can concentrate on helping the team in the games that lie ahead."

The Royal British Legion said, "the decision to wear the poppy must be a matter of personal choice".

Elsewhere, the Football Association and Stoke City are investigating a social media post by Potters winger James McClean in which he described some of the Championship club's fans as "uneducated cavemen".

The 29-year-old was abused by a section of the home crowd for not wearing a poppy during Saturday's 0-0 draw with visitors Middlesbrough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46099843

[Bluewolf]

The idea behind the Poppy was to remember all of those that gave their lives in pursuit of freedom... 

If somebody chooses not to wear one then that's their personal choice.. I really don't feel the need to give someone a hard time over it.. 

[LFCMike]

This whole poppy on the shirts thing only started over the last 10 years didn't it? Why? What prompted it?

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

This whole poppy on the shirts thing only started over the last 10 years didn't it? Why? What prompted it?

Clickbait media.