UK Politics

[Honey Honey]

These debates would be better if Plaid Commie and the GuesSNP weren't taking up air time when they have nothing to contribute Labour don't. We'd have more and better actual debate if there wasn't so many copies of each other.

[Honey Honey]

Balloon head just called Guardian readers museli eaters and tried to make a case for enviornmentalism which is incredibly rich considering his environmental illiteracy contributed to his own constituency flooding badly and he continued to reject the evidence after it.

 

[HK85]

Sounds like Jack Whitehall has written Farron's jokes for tonight. 

[Burning Gold]

20 hours ago, 6666 said:

The Lib Dems have always come across as mostly being whiny and Nick Clegg pretty much selling out what the Liberal Democrats are supposed to be about by bending over for the Conservatives so he can have a slice of power definitely didn't help.

That's certainly the perception, but it's not a fair one. The Lib Dems achieved a disproportionate amount of their campaign pledges, including a referendum on the alternative vote system which could've been a massive game changer.

[Stan]

she's an absolute nutter and I can't stand her, but she's had Rudd's/May's pants down here

 

[Panflute]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Ultra-religious hardliners are an admirable group? Because they have a political party and are against ISIS? They're basically just Iran's theocracies thugs. I'll be honest, I don't think there are many admirable groups in the Middle East right now. There's no open secularist movements... but Hezbollah are a group I don't think can be reasonably called admirable.

They are ideological soldiers fighting against the double-headed snake of Wahhabism and Zionism. They gave the Israeli army a run for their money in 2006, and their role in the fight against ISIS and related terror groups in Syria cannot be overstated, especially in the wake of the Western media's fetish for the Kurds.

[Honey Honey]

10 hours ago, Stan said:

she's an absolute nutter and I can't stand her, but she's had Rudd's/May's pants down here

 

Likewise this one's funny

 

[Inverted]

Apparently Rudd's father died on Monday, so she deserves some credit for her efforts tonight. However, it's all the more damning that May couldn't even muster the will to overcome her own spinelessness, and was reliant on a subordinate fighting through such personal hardship, and counted on them to go into an extremely tough situation to fight her battle for her. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Panflute said:

They are ideological soldiers fighting against the double-headed snake of Wahhabism and Zionism. They gave the Israeli army a run for their money in 2006, and their role in the fight against ISIS and related terror groups in Syria cannot be overstated, especially in the wake of the Western media's fetish for the Kurds.

They're zealots beholden to their masters in a sea of zealots (some of whom are also beholden to their masters, some of them operate truly independently). There is no reason to glorify any of them.

[Inverted]

51 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

The horrible thing is that I don't want Theresa May as PM but in the same breath I don't want that absolute shit-stain Diane Abbott in power in any form either.

Mate that's just a total concession to desperate Tory propaganda. Okay sure, Abbott's a bit of a whopper, but why does nobody talk about Boris, one of our most grossly unqualified Foreign Secs ever?

Or Liz Truss, who's meant to protect the Rule of Law in our country, but stood aside sheepishly when the right-wing tabloids smeared the legitimacy of our courts? 

You know that you can't abide May and her insipid brand of Conservatism winning, but you're letting sideshow concerns like Abbott put doubt in your mind. 

Edit: never even mentioned Jeremy Hunt, whose time as Sec for Health has basically been one giant crisis, and a campaign of purposeful sabotage of our health service. 

[Fairy In Boots]

9 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

@Fairy In Boots Corbyn isn't perfect but it's not a party leaders job to know every fact and figure in their manifesto as this is party politics not a dictatorship. Admittedly after Abbot's fuck up he should have known better and speaking of her, I wish he'd sack off the bint altogether as she's a total liability.

As for Labour's spending policies, I'm all for them. Tory austerity has had six years to prove its the solution. During this time I've seen first hand some of the consequences having been through university and become a teacher. Even in 2 full years of teaching I've seen the cuts tearing education to pieces. And for what? What has compromising the education of our next generation achieved for the country? The deficit has been reduced, perfect, so how does that help me? How does that help you?

On immigration, Corbyn promised to regulate it without promising exact numbers like Theresa did but couldn't follow through on.

Two things firstly if you don't know how the deficit being reduced helps us as a electorate then you have no business being a teacher. It's basic maths we spend more than we earn so we borrow to make up the difference this incurs interest charges which adds to our debt and means we don't make half the headway we need to servicing that debt. Ideally as a state we want to be in the black with a fair tax policy that brings in x amount for which we spend less than this figure to get a decent civil service system, the surplus we put away or invest in our long term future on things like infrastructure etc. It's hard to do when as a country we're carrying on like a chav with a wonga loan.

The second thing is, you're a teacher who went to school then went onto university and is know at school, you're institutionalized in the education system and correct me if i'm wrong but will have spent very little time in the private sector. The civil service or "you guys" aren't the economy, you never will be, how much we spend on you guys depends on how much we can make off our private sector, if the private sector is struggling then there's less going in the pot. Less in the pot, the less we can spend on you, unless of course you have the economic delusions of Labour. My folks are both civil servants don't know they're fucking born absolute work shy fuckers( much as i love them), they're colleagues and family who're in the same line of work are the same. I have two teachers in my family, again not in the real world, just grown up kids nowadays not like the teachers of old who had real world experience.

Let's say that Labour win, Corbyn radically increases spending on all forms of social care, this is funded by borrowing, taxing the wealthy who will fuck off as they have in France, and taxing the private sector. That pot has already got the grubby mits of the trade unions on it because who do you think have installed Corbyn and funded this circus of commies? it's not the Labour donors of old it's the trade unions. The private sector which is our wealth generation, is then burdened in a competitive world where often due to the standard of living and value of wages here, they can't compete with the developing nations but must carry on regardless. Especially in a post Brexit world where we now have to find our own way. We could get lucky but i doubt we will, deregulation seems to have a much more positive effect on the private sector, something Labour aren't known for.

Increased funding means you then get more funding per head per person which will increase because they won't control immigration, Labour view it as importing voters because ethic minorities are more disposed to vote labour (despite the white left's condescending attitude to this) which in turn pushes up the overall funding required. You're a teacher you are aware of larger class sizes equals poorer results and standard of education, what do you think large uncontrolled immigration causes? Then you have the added burden on the NHS, the increased policing, hospitals, fire service, housing, traffic, dental care, pressure on a jobs market as well as integration issues.  Let's not forget terrorist sympathizer Jez is a friend of Hamas, his party love a good Muslim. Both groups (muslims & the British Labour party) hate the jews, the enemy of my enemy is my friend after all. Where's all this extra cash going to come from? taxing the rich? who we have no power to hold here as other countries will gladly accept them as has happened with the migration of French Billionaires to London fleeing France's socialist tax grab under Hollande.

Also while we're at it tuition fees, a huge cost and going back on something that Labour introduced back in 1998 (yeah man fuck those Tory cunts charging us for our education). And as we're onto Labour double standards, lets unpack more fucking bullshit. Do you know what else Labour the peoples party did in 1998? yep they introduced the Zero hour contract, the same thing the current Labour party screams about to portray Tory's as abusers of the common man is a product of their own fucking construction. The party that protects the NHS actually sold a hospital to the private sector and oversaw little or no different privatization levels than the Tories did either side of the Blair government, they signed over 100 PFI contracts which also hold Jez hands, he can't do away with free parking at Hospitals, Labour again have seen to this.

As well as all this expenditure, it also has a massive negative effect on society as a whole, the poor are less inclined to work and better themselves as they're kept to an a fairly decent style of living. The pride of the old working class has gone as we now have a new sub working class, and all sorts of problems stem from this such as depression, poor health choices, poor life choices, alcohol & drug abuse. We have entire generations of dependency in some towns (which i'll agree isn't always because of benefits, lack of options is a big factor) which is utterly corrosive for society and ends up costing more and more year upon year.

Arguing over this policy or that policy is irrelevant really, as much as I rag on Corbyn, it's his paymaster's at unite that will bang the drum he skips to. The two opposing ideals remain the same at their core (although May suddenly fancies herself a socialist conservative whatever the fuck one of them is)

Tories are for a bare bones state, greater self governance and responsibility from the individual for their life choices. This is in theory to be achieved by a strong private sector and a small social sector which in turns means less tax so we do with our money as we see fit. The downside of this is the private sector is beholden to outside forces so it can go tits up. It's not as tightly regulated so profiteering and abuse can occur. On a personal level if you make poor choices for yourself you're fucked and if you're completely reliant on the state the bare bones social care is naff.

Labour are for greater social state which is much less independent wealth and more reliance on the state. This is to be achieved by taxing us all (although they'll say richer to start) and taxing companies more. The downside to this is they run out of money every 7-10years as the model is flawed, the rich hide their money, the state social care is often naff and not as good as private services because state staff tend to be more regulated and less productive (emergency staff are pretty brilliant people who work extremely hard, i'm generalizing for the sake of an argument I have no complaints about nurses or doctors, genuine front line emergency staff) it's roles such as admin, teachers are lazy moaning cunts by and large to. This means standards go down rather than up and the tax payer gets shit return on his/her £.

I'm on board with the Tory ethos, fuck it i'll make my own way in the world, I have a private pension, and health care plan they're sacrifices I make out of my own disposable income. I'll look after myself, i don't want to pay more for others they can fucking well look after themselves.

In the spirit of fairness, socilaism can work in places like Scandinavia where it's a much more open society and they still have thriving private sectors then yes it can. We're a vastly different social animal to the Scandinavians though, it just seems to fall flat on it's face in the UK. If Corbyn did get in, it will be great for you for 5 -10 years then when the cash runs out we'll be back in the shit again with austerity to put it all right again, boom and bust is the motto for British politics.

 

9 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Likewise this one's funny

 

Oh it was so biased even a few lefties i know have said as much.

9 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Apparently Rudd's father died on Monday, so she deserves some credit for her efforts tonight. However, it's all the more damning that May couldn't even muster the will to overcome her own spinelesslessness, and was reliant on a subordinate fighting through such personal hardship, and counted on them to go into an extremely tough situation to fight her battle for her. 

 

Another error from May and her team at this point they must be at absolute panic stations all the momentum has swung and she's not personable so can't correct it. Completely outplayed by Camp Corbyn who was also ditching it this morning let's not forget that. May wasn't alone in being wrong footed by this, I bet that wee little fish sounding xenophobe who runs your SNP crowd, what's her name Mackrel? is pissed, her chance to seem relevant for 5 minutes up in smoke.

 

[RandoEFC+]

@Fairy In Boots I respect that you've taken the time to make all those very well reasoned arguments, when you've decided you've decided and clearly we're two people with very different positions on this that won't be changed at this stage.

It's okay to talk the numbers game when it comes to budget deficits, private sectors and public sectors, but I'm asking what reducing the deficit does for actual people. "No business being a teacher", I'd say back that there's no need for you to start throwing insults when the rest of your post is such high quality. I've done an A level and joint degree in economics so I know enough about budget surplus and deficit ta, while my PGCE and masters in education will attest to what business I have being a teacher. The deficit may have been reduced but it's foolish to use that as evidence that the economy is back on track when many in my generation will have to wait until their mid 30s to even think about affording a mortgage while zero hour contracts paper over the cracks of how many people can't get proper work. I'll steer clear of the convenient "nurses visiting food banks" sound bite but you get the point I'm sure. 

Like you've said, I have experience of education and nothing in the private sector, and I won't presume to know what your life experiences are, but when I started in my current job I was one of five maths teachers in a department with a teaching assistant. As of September, the same school with the same number of kids will have three maths teachers, the teaching assistant taking some classes of their own because there isn't enough money to get enough qualified teachers to cover the timetable. This rate of staff cutting is consistent across the school more or less, and is becoming the norm across the country. Again, I don't know your level of knowledge on this but I can assure you that schools having to operate like this is seriously damaging the education of a generation of children and that's why I'm voting Labour, and why I'd still vote Labour even if I didn't agree with any of their other policies. This country is nowhere if the next generation isn't educated properly.

HOWEVER, I'm completely against the university fees situation. The idea behind it is nice but it's an absolutely outrageous expense with the economy as it is to be paying £9000 a year so Softcuntlad Chinowanker can go and get pissed at Sheffield Hallam for three years and walk away with a 2:1 in media studies after getting two Es at A Level before sitting on the dole for six months. Not even an exaggeration either. I know dozens from my school alone who fit this bill, we were pretty much the last to get through before the new fees came in. 

Either way, I fear that we're utterly fucked either way. A Labour government may improve education, health and welfare but will drive us back into a budget deficit in doing so as their £80K plus tax targets and cooperations leave the country due to Brexit and increased taxes, while a Tory government will continue as they have tightening the belt and reducing quality of life for swathes of the population in an attempt to pay off the crushing divorce payment we'll end up spaffing to Brussels following the Brexit negotiations.

Fucking Farage.

Edit: Forgot to address one point you made on class sizes. Yes uncontrolled immigration will lead to bigger classes on average across the country but you're probably talking going from 22 kids to 24 kids every few years, it depends where you are, my area isn't that affected. However, the impact of strangling education spending has a bigger impact, some schools losing a quarter of their teachers in some subjects, for example. Then instead of having 4 teachers to teach 100 kids (25 per class) you've got 3 teachers (33 per class). Possibly an extreme example but take my word for it, it's fucking grim.

[Inverted]

@Fairy In Boots

Tbf Sturgeon is still First Minister, which is pretty much as relevant as she can be as an Indy advocate within the UK. She has no responsibilities to anyone outwith Scotland, and she's not up for election on the 8th, so I'm no sure I get your points on her absence.

And considering her attitude on immigration compared to yours, I'm not quite sure you're in a position to call her a xenophobe there. 

Maybe you think she's an Anglophobe, which is a common perception amongst people who hold Scotland in such little regard that they pay no attention to its politics. And considering your stormer of a Mackrel gag, you're not being very subtle in trying to show-off how little you care about what happens up here. 

[DeadLinesman]

8 hours ago, Stan said:

she's an absolute nutter and I can't stand her, but she's had Rudd's/May's pants down here

 

Not really sure I'd be bigging up the fact that my boss only decided on the day that he could be arsed to show up, and only because he saw it as an opportunity to constantly remind us someone wasn't there (which he wasn't going to be 12 hours before either). That was the biggest disappointment of last night to be honest. I've got Facebook and other outlets telling me how fucking shit May is. Didn't need those 7 cunts wasting my time again last night when they could have been selling their party to me instead.

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

Not really sure I'd be bigging up the fact that my boss only decided on the day that he could be arsed to show up, and only because he saw it as an opportunity to constantly remind us someone wasn't there (which he wasn't going to be 12 hours before either). That was the biggest disappointment of last night to be honest. I've got Facebook and other outlets telling me how fucking shit May is. Didn't need those 7 cunts wasting my time again last night when they could have been selling their party to me instead.

Corbyn barely mentioned May last night

[DeadLinesman]

33 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Corbyn barely mentioned May last night

C'mon mate, they all did. Just because he didn't do it as much as Farron or in his opening speech. He didn't need to crank up the rhetoric anyway what with the 90% labour audience 

[Honey Honey]

34 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

What was May's reasoning behind not going to the debate?  

It clashed with the Britain's Got Talent Semi Finals.

[Inverted]

The audience was selected for socio-economic diversity. If Rudd wanted cheers maybe she should have said something that they agreed with, rather than insulting their intelligence. 

The fact is that the Tories' strength lies in their support from the largest forces in print media. It's often been the case that when people get a chance to see things for themselves, and get the arguments from the horses' mouths, rather than the Mail or the Telegraph's impression of the arguments, they actually find themselves doubting their position. The Tories minimise actual exposure, and let their pals like Lord Rothermere and Paul Dacre pick up the slack for them by smearing the other parties. 

To put it simply: Labour's strength is that a Corbyn can win over a room. The Conservatives' strength is that the day after, they have the biggest papers in the country saying he flopped.

 

[God is Haaland]

52 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

What was May's reasoning behind not going to the debate? Caught a few highlights and as others have said it seemed to be a slagging off exercise aimed at the Conservatives than anything else. 

The fact that anything UKIP says being met with heckles and boos is getting tiresome now too, like all parties they have their clown moments but they do talk sense in some areas.

Because she rationalised her hopeless, unrealistic Brexit plans by poiting out that she's obeying "the will of the people!!!!!!111111", but the problem is she's a cuntservative who really doesn't give a fuck about "the will of people!!!!!1111", wants to take away money from the police and doesn't plan to put any money into the NHS and education system.

[LFCMike]

28 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

C'mon mate, they all did. Just because he didn't do it as much as Farron or in his opening speech. He didn't need to crank up the rhetoric anyway what with the 90% labour audience 

Well yeah that's kind of what I meant. I remember him mentioning her directly once.

As for people moaning about the 'biased left wing audience', about time it was balanced out a bit isn't it? I mean Corbyn has had to put up with a constant onslaught of right wing bias for years

[Stan]

2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Not really sure I'd be bigging up the fact that my boss only decided on the day that he could be arsed to show up, and only because he saw it as an opportunity to constantly remind us someone wasn't there (which he wasn't going to be 12 hours before either). That was the biggest disappointment of last night to be honest. I've got Facebook and other outlets telling me how fucking shit May is. Didn't need those 7 cunts wasting my time again last night when they could have been selling their party to me instead.

 

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

Corbyn barely mentioned May last night

 

36 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

C'mon mate, they all did. Just because he didn't do it as much as Farron or in his opening speech. He didn't need to crank up the rhetoric anyway what with the 90% labour audience 

like you say, he probably didn't need to add to the rhetoric but you can't exactly blame him for doing so? It's an easy win, regardless of who the audience was behind. 

Justl like Corbyn decided to attend late in the day, May had the same chance to do so as well? Corbyn gets criticised for choosing to attend yet also gets criticised for pointing that our current Prime Minister didn't even attend. Can't have that both ways!

The format was a bit disappointing - at times it was just 4 or 5 just talking over each other or became a bit of a slanging match. Couple of them didn't need to be there.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Well yeah that's kind of what I meant. I remember him mentioning her directly once.

As for people moaning about the 'biased left wing audience', about time it was balanced out a bit isn't it? I mean Corbyn has had to put up with a constant onslaught of right wing bias for years

and the media onslaught even more recently. 

[Inverted]

Btw if anyone doubts that UKIP are nothing more than a closeted Tory attempt to get more working class voters to screw themselves over for the rich, just look at Nuttall last night.

"The immigrants are the ones stretching all our public services budgets! Btw, we also need cut corporation tax even lower".

[DeadLinesman]

If May had have turned up last night, it would have been an onslaught of "oh, she changed her mind again!!!!" for about an hour from the other candidates. I don't mind an audience getting involved as such, but didn't the actual presenter get shouted down at one point when she was asking Corbyn a question? That's just not cricket........

[Inverted]

May's interview with the Plymouth herald...