Wanting Your Team To Lose II - The Manchester Derby

[Smiley Culture]

So, picture this, your cross-city rivals, a team that have come out of nowhere almost, are in a two way battle with your other nemesis, the city down the road (figuratively speaking) that has a long history both on and off the football pitch, for the Premier League title. 

Bad enough? Well, you’re fighting it out to get into the Champions League next season and your next game, one you need to win to give yourself a chance, is against...your cross-City rivals. 

What do you want to happen? 

———

We had a whole debate about this earlier this year when Everton fans wanted to lose to Man City in the hope that, later down the line, Liverpool didn’t win the title. 

Now, with a matter of games to go, United are in that situation with City. So do United fans want to beat City? Want to lose so Liverpool don’t win it?

[RandoEFC+]

It is a mad one this. I don't know a single Man Utd fan who would rather see Liverpool win the league than Manchester City. While there's an element of City having already done it multiple times in recent history so what's the difference if they win it again, versus Liverpool breaking their 30 year duck being a bigger pill to swallow, it still speaks volumes about the rivalries United have with each of the two clubs that there's not even any sort of split in their fan base over which is the lesser of two evils.

Imagine wanting your team to lose the city derby though to stop another rival from winning the title. I can understand it to an extent but it's crazy to think about. 

When Everton fans were making noise about wanting us to lose to Man City to hurt Liverpool, a major part of that was to try and wind Liverpool fans up, though there were some Evertonians on the spectrum who genuinely wanted us to lose, and most of us knew it wouldn't make a difference because we were shite at that phase of the season. The Man Utd fans I've spoken to don't even say it as a wind up. To be fair to them this is much more of a black and white scenario where United beating City will almost certainly hand the title to Liverpool, but still, they're genuinely terrified of Liverpool winning the league and I think a large proportion of them would genuinely rather see their team lose this match.

[Cicero]

Liverpool win the league or don’t make top 4 

[Harry]

38 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Liverpool win the league or don’t make top 4 

That's the bigger aspect to the situation. They are on the cusp of missing CL qualification and losing to City would almost guarantee they miss out.

How could you want that?

Surely not many fans would actually want that?

[The Artful Dodger]

The whole country is absolutely obsessed with Liverpool football club, for good or bad. Let nobody ever say they are not a giant of a club, has the country ever cared about one club to such an extent?

[Smiley Culture]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

That's the bigger aspect to the situation. They are on the cusp of missing CL qualification and losing to City would almost guarantee they miss out.

How could you want that?

Surely not many fans would actually want that?

I don’t know, I know the whole rivalry thing is the big point of this dilemma but they’re guaranteed European Football so it’s not like they’re missing out completely. Fans still get European Football, granted the opponents won’t be as good but they’ll stick get the opportunity to watch their side abroad and they have a greater chance of winning a Europa League over a Champions League too, I suppose.

Yeah, they won’t make as much money as a club for playing in the Europa League but fans couldn’t really care less about that sort of thing, could they? It’s not as though they’re a small club desperate for money, they’re Manchester United.

And yeah, I know the whole “players want to play in the Champions League” thing that people say but United should be a big enough attraction that not qualifying for the Champions League that a second Europa League/UEFA Cup group stage entry since 1995 wouldn’t be that much of a downfall to joining a club. 

I’ve always seen United v Liverpool as more of a bigger game than a Manchester Derby tbh, so I fully expect United fans to want and actually expect a defeat against City this week. 

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

The whole country is absolutely obsessed with Liverpool football club, for good or bad. Let nobody ever say they are not a giant of a club, has the country ever cared about one club to such an extent?

Literally throughout the 90s you had Man Utd fans loving their club and everyone else pretty much hating them for being so good ultimately. 

So I'd say yes. 

Time to get your cock out of that Liverbird's arse now. 

[The Artful Dodger]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

Literally throughout the 90s you had Man Utd fans loving their club and everyone else pretty much hating them for being so good ultimately. 

So I'd say yes. 

Time to get your cock out of that Liverbird's arse now. 

Nah, it's different. Would you get tits from Leicester attacking Manchester United for no apparent reason? Wouldn't happen. Liverpool as a city and club is attacked and hated by the English media.

Lot of bad things about Liverpool Football Club and I'm one of its fiercest critics but I am enjoying how much it winds up English bellends when Liverpool do well. 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Nah, it's different. Would you get tits from Leicester attacking Manchester United for no apparent reason? Wouldn't happen. Liverpool as a city and club is attacked and hated by the English media.

Lot of bad things about Liverpool Football Club and I'm one of its fiercest critics but I am enjoying how much it winds up English bellends when Liverpool do well. 

You must be blind or stupid. I'll let you choose which one because I probably dislike Utd more than Liverpool. 

You let your own little 'everyone is anti-Liverpool' bullshit agenda rule your life though  it's probably not healthy (you are literally the evidence for that) but you can figure that out yourself one day as well. 

You really aren't one of their 'fiercest critics' either not by anything shown on here anyway.

Whatever makes you happy I guess. 

[The Artful Dodger]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

You must be blind or stupid. I'll let you choose which one because I probably dislike Utd more than Liverpool. 

You let your own little 'everyone is anti-Liverpool' bullshit agenda rule your life though  it's probably not healthy (you are literally the evidence for that) but you can figure that out yourself one day as well. 

 You really aren't one of their 'fiercest critics' either not by anything shown on here anyway.

Whatever makes you happy I guess. 

Has this post actually said anything? I know I upset you by calling our your bias but I've not said anything wrong. 

Your Liverpool posts are actually some of your interesting ones to be fair, the rest are so banal and generic they aren't worth reading. Concentrate on what your passionate about.

[Stan]

Just now, The Artful Dodger said:

Has this post actually said anything? I know I upset you by calling our your bias but I've not said anything wrong. 

Your Liverpool posts are actually some of your interesting ones to be fair, the rest are so banal and generic they aren't worth reading. Concentrate on what your passionate about.

Again, will leave that to your own judgement. 

Thanks for your feedback though. Appreciated. 

Goodnight. 

[Dan+]

If Manchester United had won at Everton I think they'd have gotten away with taking this one easy. Given they've lost 6 games in 8 and have been battered twice in a week I don't think they can afford to.

On the flip side - this record alone should get Man City fans licking their lips.

Manchester United 5/1 at home in the Premier League that's got to be the highest price ever?

[Harry]

44 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Nah, it's different. Would you get tits from Leicester attacking Manchester United for no apparent reason? Wouldn't happen. Liverpool as a city and club is attacked and hated by the English media.

Lot of bad things about Liverpool Football Club and I'm one of its fiercest critics but I am enjoying how much it winds up English bellends when Liverpool do well. 

I'm not in the UK but I have an impression that most neutrals would prefer to see Liverpool win the title over Man City. The exceptions being mostly United and Everton fans and Guardiola fanboys.

 

[Dan+]

50 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Nah, it's different. Would you get tits from Leicester attacking Manchester United for no apparent reason? Wouldn't happen. Liverpool as a city and club is attacked and hated by the English media.

Lot of bad things about Liverpool Football Club and I'm one of its fiercest critics but I am enjoying how much it winds up English bellends when Liverpool do well. 

I'd say so. I think both get slagged off here. I think all the top clubs do here but probably those two and Tottenham above all here, although Tottenham is largely circumstantial from both three years ago and a game previously.

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I'm not in the UK but I have an impression that most neutrals would prefer to see Liverpool win the title over Man City. The exceptions being mostly United and Everton fans and Guardiola fanboys.

Disagree and think the majority would rather Man City. I don't think TAD is entirely wrong with what he says in some ways although I disagree about the media comments. Maybe as a city Liverpool is sneered at in the media but as a football club? I think Liverpool probably have the strongest representation in football media in this country. In-fact I'm sure of it.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Nah, it's different. Would you get tits from Leicester attacking Manchester United for no apparent reason? Wouldn't happen. Liverpool as a city and club is attacked and hated by the English media.

Lot of bad things about Liverpool Football Club and I'm one of its fiercest critics but I am enjoying how much it winds up English bellends when Liverpool do well. 

Not having that at all. Liverpool and Man Utd are both equally hated amongst neutrals in my experience. When Man Utd were actually relevant they were hated by everyone and if they were competing for the title next season you'd see that come to the fore again amongst fans. Right now Liverpool are having their day and get talked about a lot more so you see a lot more threads on here and Twitter having a pop at them.

I don't think it's an anti-scouse thing, I've never looked at it that way. I think when you have insufferable fans of other clubs, it makes you want their club to fail, and Manchester United and Liverpool have by far the widest reaching fanbases in the country. Every club has annoying bastards who get carried away and gloat in an insufferable manner when their team is succeeding. Wherever you live in the UK, just through the sheer mass of United and Liverpool fans in any part of the country and not because their fanbases are more or less deluded than any other club, chances are you know at least one Man Utd fan and at least one Liverpool fan who you'd categorise as "insufferable" when their team is on a positive trajectory, and I bet hardly anyone knows an insufferable Man City fan just because the size and span of their fan base is dwarfed by Liverpool's. As a result most people in England probably don't want Liverpool to win the league because that one guy of work will be unbearable for the next year but if City win it who cares because I know like one guy who supports them and I haven't seen him since my sister's birthday 3 years ago.

Remember when Moyes had his first season in charge of United and broke all of those bad records? It was like a nationwide festival of non-United fans coming together to rub their noses in it as revenge for the years of having to put up with their dominance and the subsequent gloating of their insufferables. Everton won at Old Trafford, Newcastle did, probably Liverpool as well, I'm sure Swansea or someone did too and they got it from all angles until people got bored. The next time United find themselves in a title race or a Champions League semi final and that section of support pipes up again sneering "We're back" up and down the country you'll see everyone start ganging up on them again too.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

I'm not in the UK but I have an impression that most neutrals would prefer to see Liverpool win the title over Man City. The exceptions being mostly United and Everton fans and Guardiola fanboys.

 

Nah almost everyone hates us. There’s a lot of reasons, but some of them are extra stupid

[Happy Blue]

Like united fans are going to have a choice   ..they going to get battered on Wednesday if they like it or not, we will score 6 or more  ..i still remember that banner they had up about how long it's been since City won anything, they hate us more if they admit it or not, City is the only true Manchester club, they say Liverpool is a bigger derby because they think that bothers us lol  ..at the moment the biggest derby in the world is City vs Liverpool

[The Artful Dodger]

7 hours ago, Stan said:

Again, will leave that to your own judgement. 

Thanks for your feedback though. Appreciated. 

Goodnight. 

Apologies for that last bit. Was out of order. 

[DeadLinesman]

I’d rather just play football and win. Personally, it will be unbearable for me to go to work in Liverpool, but I’ve had enough wins over the years so I can take it.

As for City over Liverpool, I genuinely couldn’t care less. They’re pretty much a non entity to me anyway as they can’t even fill a stadium full of actual fans to be arsed about them, so if their own support base don’t care, why would anyone else? Imagine playing some of the best football in your teams history with a squad like that, and still getting empty seats, whilst claiming to be ‘the only club in Manchester’. Manchester must hate football.

[Azeem]

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’d rather just play football and win. Personally, it will be unbearable for me to go to work in Liverpool, but I’ve had enough wins over the years so I can take it.

As for City over Liverpool, I genuinely couldn’t care less. They’re pretty much a non entity to me anyway as they can’t even fill a stadium full of actual fans to be arsed about them, so if their own support base don’t care, why would anyone else? Imagine playing some of the best football in your teams history with a squad like that, and still getting empty seats, whilst claiming to be ‘the only club in Manchester’. Manchester must hate football.

Barcelona has an average attendance of 67k in a 90,000 stadium. Can't say it says anything about the club's stature

[CaaC (John)+]

Growing up in Australia I did not know or hear much about the rivalry and hate bit about one club or the other but since arriving back in the UK in 72 and over the years I could see and hear and understand more about the rivalry bit, as for Wednesday night v City my thoughts would be if we win we win, if we lose, we lose, end of story.

All I know is that United will have to rebuild again now Fergie has gone and really the same goes with Arsenal now Wenger has gone, two good managers that bought both clubs into the limelight for a lot of years with success following but the boot is on the other foot now really so just get on with it, I won't lose any sleep over it as I am too old nowadays. .

I should be upset and think where did I go wrong as our son supports Liverpool but I bought him up to make his own choices in life and he has, he also supports Hearts of Midlothian here in Scotland and I am a Rangers man, but we both just get on with it, sit down and have a drink and talk about football both sides of the fence, there is no harm in rivalry between football supporters but when it becomes silly like people fighting and killing one or the other over which club they support then it's a no goer for me.

I have always said and I have bought my son up who is sports mad that Family & Health comes first, sport or football comes second, once I finish in here I will do what I have always done and switch this laptop off and go into family mode until I log back on again.

 

[IgnisExcubitor]

1 hour ago, Happy Blue said:

Like united fans are going to have a choice   ..they going to get battered on Wednesday if they like it or not, we will score 6 or more  ..i still remember that banner they had up about how long it's been since City won anything, they hate us more if they admit it or not, City is the only true Manchester club, they say Liverpool is a bigger derby because they think that bothers us lol  ..at the moment the biggest derby in the world is City vs Liverpool

I am not a local so I could be wrong, but I have always felt that both United and Liverpool consider each other as bigger rivals than their city counterparts. It's down to history and the success enjoyed by both clubs. There also exists a kind of respect towards each other, whereas they almost mock or look down upon their city rivals. 

[DeadLinesman]

6 minutes ago, Azeem said:

Barcelona has an average attendance of 67k in a 90,000 stadium. Can't say it says anything about the club's stature

And? Comparing a 90k+ stadium to the Etihad? Barsa fans aren’t the ones constantly claiming to be the only club in their locality. My point goes much deeper though. If you’re in the best period of your entire history playing some of the best football on the planet, with the best players and manager, and yet the locals can’t be arsed watching, why would you bother to see them as some massive rival? Liverpool will always historically be a bigger game to United than City. It’s not just in a footballing context. It’s much more deep rooted.

[Rick]

The media love us. They would love the story of a title win after so many years. 

The fans however, hate us for the most part. You see it everywhere, even neutrals loving us falter. Every team has bellends supporting them, but it seems that our entire fanbase is judged off the back of a few idiots. Most of us don't think we are the best team in the world, we don't just expect glory because of the club we are. The majority of us are just fucking enjoying this ride and praying it ends with that trophy. We don't have some god given right to win, but we've put up the best fight for it. 

There will be utd fans that would rather give up a top four finish than watch us lift the cup, but the vast majority of sane supporters will want a response from these shitty Utd players on Wednesday night. Not that it matters anyways, the likelyhood is another spanking.