Cicero Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Doubt it. Pretty sure Canada falls in line with the systemic racism that’s all around the anglosphere tbh, it’s just not as bad and overt as it is in America, which is a shockingly racist place. When this story broke out, politicians, athletes, and celebrities with a massive platform claimed this killing was racially motivated, without any evidence being presented. Does it really help if virtually every single incident that involves a white cop and a black suspect, automatically be deemed racially motivated? Or is it just further creating the racial divide and setting a dangerous precedent, much like we saw yesterday? Ask any of those protesters yesterday who are claiming this is only a race issue, who Kelly Thomas and Francis Pusok are. I like claims backed by evidence. When you are telling me you are 20% more likely to be shot by police in Canada because you are black, it sets a narrative that isn't necessarily true. It's very convenient to make such a claim in a country that has a ban on showing race-crime statistics.
Dr. Gonzo Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 34 minutes ago, Cicero said: When this story broke out, politicians, athletes, and celebrities with a massive platform claimed this killing was racially motivated, without any evidence being presented. Does it really help if virtually every single incident that involves a white cop and a black suspect, automatically be deemed racially motivated? Or is it just further creating the racial divide and setting a dangerous precedent, much like we saw yesterday? Ask any of those protesters yesterday who are claiming this is only a race issue, who Kelly Thomas and Francis Pusok are. I like claims backed by evidence. When you are telling me you are 20% more likely to be shot by police in Canada because you are black, it sets a narrative that isn't necessarily true. It's very convenient to make such a claim in a country that has a ban on showing race-crime statistics. Look at the statistics of police deaths in America. Black people die way more and are armed less than other minority groups killed by police - which indicates that in more situations police should be looking to restrain them without killing (because... there’s no weapon). Are cops in a America too violent to everyone? Yeah. But is there a racial component? Absolutely. Today I just learned about the Tulsa Race Massacre, which happened 99 years ago today in Oklahoma. America has a pretty obvious ugly history with racism and it still exists in this day and age. Look at this article from 2017: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/ & then look at the statistics of those killed by police in America and it’s not hard to assume there very well might be a racial component. Minneapolis needs to hurry up and charge the other 3 officers.
Cicero Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Look at the statistics of police deaths in America. Black people die way more and are armed less than other minority groups killed by police - which indicates that in more situations police should be looking to restrain them without killing (because... there’s no weapon). Are cops in a America too violent to everyone? Yeah. But is there a racial component? Absolutely. Today I just learned about the Tulsa Race Massacre, which happened 99 years ago today in Oklahoma. America has a pretty obvious ugly history with racism and it still exists in this day and age. Look at this article from 2017: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/ & then look at the statistics of those killed by police in America and it’s not hard to assume there very well might be a racial component. Minneapolis needs to hurry up and charge the other 3 officers. I have looked at the statistics. If you're basing on the population as a whole, more white people have died from police shootings in the states. And by a considerable margin. If you're basing on the death rate by race, more blacks have died from police shootings at nearly twice the rate of the general population. But you can't just leave it at that without referencing the crime rate by race. In terms of the crime rate, blacks have committed crimes at nearly twice the rate of the general population. This is all statistically shown by the FBI's criminal data base and when you reference America's population by race. You can't look at this data and at the same time say every time a white officer kills a black man, it was racially motivated. This continues to be the narrative in America and it is pushed hard. When politicians, celebrities, athletes or anyone with a large platform claims this was an act of racism, without even seeing any of the evidence, it strengthens the repressed mentality in some blacks and sets the narrative America is still as racist as it's always been. FFS Ice Cube posted a pic on his social media of a man wearing a hat that said 'Make Whites Great Again', trying to convince his audience it was Derek Chauvin when it wasn't even Derek Chauvin.
Spike Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 In this chapter we learn about absolutism. What is absolute? That black Americans are killed by police at a higher rate than other racial groups What isn't absolute? That racism is the motivation for all the killings perpetrated by police on black Americans So the conclusion? An indeterminate ratio of killings are racially motivated.
Dr. Gonzo Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 At least this cop seems to have a better understanding of how to keep the protest peaceful. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/31/lets-walk-flint-sheriff-joins-protesters-show-solidarity/5299264002/
Cicero Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Why are some people so desperate for this to be race motivated?
Danny Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Really? Not racially motivated? Not part of a wider issue of systemic racism within America against black people? Black men aren’t more likely to be shot? Black people originally looked at as slaves and subhuman, then looked at as criminals and not deserving of the same civil rights, generations of families living in poverty, generations targeted by government, the police, KKK...black people consistently represented as law breakers and dangerous, this has nothing to do with why black men are more likely to be shot by police then whites? The entire world is looking at this as another black man murdered by the police, protests up and down the US, Black Lives Matter, and you’re trying to play around with numbers to whitewash what’s happened? This is straight out of the same basket as Kel’s holocaust denial.
Spike Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Danny said: Really? Not racially motivated? Not part of a wider issue of systemic racism within America against black people? Black men aren’t more likely to be shot? Black people originally looked at as slaves and subhuman, then looked at as criminals and not deserving of the same civil rights, generations of families living in poverty, generations targeted by government, the police, KKK...black people consistently represented as law breakers and dangerous, this has nothing to do with why black men are more likely to be shot by police then whites? The entire world is looking at this as another black man murdered by the police, protests up and down the US, Black Lives Matter, and you’re trying to play around with numbers to whitewash what’s happened? This is straight out of the same basket as Kel’s holocaust denial. Same as holocaust denial? Denying the systematic murder of six million souls ever happened is very different bloody well different to Cicero thinking that without definitive proof police murders of blacks aren’t all racially motivated. I really don’t think anything your arguing against was even explicitly stated, seems like you’re just filling in the blanks? maybe i’ve misread it all but it seems yer mad about something that hasnt been said, like you know people that think that way and you are projecting it onto cicero. Correct me if I am wrong @Cicero but I don’t think you meant it as ‘this wasn’t racially motivated’ but ‘it is unproven so far’?
Honey Honey Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 5 hours ago, Cicero said: Why are some people so desperate for this to be race motivated? Why are you so desperate to pick out and play on the flaws of individuals in a black movement? Of everything in this episode you could choose to spend your limited keyboard time expressing why do you choose this?
DeadLinesman Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Spike said: In this chapter we learn about absolutism. What is absolute? That black Americans are killed by police at a higher rate than other racial groups Is this actually true though? I’ve seen various graphs/charts that Caucasian death by police is actually far higher?
Azeem Posted June 1, 2020 Author Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Azeem said: Rioters infiltrated White House Correction it was some other state building
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 My neighborhood has erupted in violence. It’s been nothing but police sirens for hours.
Michael Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 31 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: Is this actually true though? I’ve seen various graphs/charts that Caucasian death by police is actually far higher? There are way more white people in the USA than any other group. So yes, death of white people by police is far higher than it is for any other racial group in the USA.
IgnisExcubitor Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Seeing the good The bad and the absolute worst.
MUFC Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Have been reading various message boards and online newspaper comments from people in the UK. One thing I've learnt is there are a huge number of racist fuckers in the UK who've tried justifying this killing and brushing it under the carpet. How many times does a black male have to die under horrible circumstances like this? What makes it sickening is that they'd have got away with it if it wasn't for the video evidence. Even then they seemed reluctant to do anything about it. Then the ambulance didn’t even ask the officer to remove his knee when they turned up and George was unconscious, this is madness. I've spoke to a few people from the USA in real life and on message forums down the years. They claim that police officers, mayors and senators are KKK members or sympathizers. If true, this explains a lot. Isn't there a rumor that one of the officers was at a KKK rally?
MUFC Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewish-hamilton-criticism-racial-injustice/
Inverted Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 The biggest thing that people don't understand is that if you are waiting for a protest movement which is perfectly behaved and has a coherent set of demands and beliefs, you will spend your entire life waiting. Demanding that a protest meet those criteria is one and the same as accepting the status quo carrying on indefinitely. We are fooled by the illusion that there are past examples which should be emulated. The Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s was seen as a violent wave of trouble-makers stirred up by communists, and was despised by most whites. The very same type of people who would have opposed it at the time, now use a mythologised, whitewashed memory of the Civil Rights Movement to say to protestors now "why can't you be more like them?".
Danny Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 5 hours ago, Spike said: Same as holocaust denial? Denying the systematic murder of six million souls ever happened is very different bloody well different to Cicero thinking that without definitive proof police murders of blacks aren’t all racially motivated. I really don’t think anything your arguing against was even explicitly stated, seems like you’re just filling in the blanks? maybe i’ve misread it all but it seems yer mad about something that hasnt been said, like you know people that think that way and you are projecting it onto cicero. Correct me if I am wrong @Cicero but I don’t think you meant it as ‘this wasn’t racially motivated’ but ‘it is unproven so far’? No I said denying that this is racially motivated and part of a wider issue of systemic police/societal brutality against black men was from the same basket as denying the Holocaust, I.e. denying a systemic form of oppression that is quite clearly happening. His posts at that point were a mixture of trying to deny police brutality on black people, putting it down to they commit crime, they get shot, and claiming a black man in America is desperate for this to be racially motivated because George Floyd is black, when quite clearly black people would be desperate to live in a world where they aren’t mistreated because of their skin. That sends alarm bells ringing, anyone who isn’t angry but what’s happening quite frankly has a problem. If he’s not denying that this is racially charged and part of a wider system of oppression onto black people then I’m happy to be wrong and apologise, but it doesn’t come across that way.
Carnivore Chris Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 If all coppers were like this fella then they would be given far more respect.
Spike Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 3 hours ago, DeadLinesman said: Is this actually true though? I’ve seen various graphs/charts that Caucasian death by police is actually far higher? Yeah, a larger amount of white people are killed by police but relative to population size black people are killed at a higher rate
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