Chelsea Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

More Saudis. Good to see the Premier League learning it's lesson from the Abramovich embarrassment huh.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

Well, I don't know how things are going to pan out obviously or who might have the winning bid in the end but I admit I would laugh my fucking arse off if someone came in with the same or even more spending power than Abramovich.... 

I think the knee jerk reactions are over the top,  the doom and gloom notably by those that have a vested interest in the demise of Chelsea due to "rivalry" is overplayed.   It is not like Chelsea are going to end up in the hands of Mike Ashley.   To buy chelsea as a going concern will require a "substantial" investor and thus someone with Abramovich or more money. 

The fact that it may be another Saudi group will really piss on a few batteries and that's my thing.   Never had an issue with Chelsea or Man City,  the notion that it ruined the game is also facetious at best.  Chelsea and Man City are the reason for great money influx which has been dominated by the "top 6 club" that have milked the riches.    Inflation is due to lesser clubs selling assets at over the top prices which caused a knock on effect.   

I would agree with new UEFA and FIFA rules on capping salaries (like US sports determined by market size) and setting up arbitration panels which can set player values before every season and any dispute on value can be arbitrated,  I would agree that there needs to be some upper limit set on maximum transfer fee allowable also depending on the clubs market size in conjunction to revisions of FFP rules to ensure sustainable finances but also that lesser clubs are not priced out creating the current gulf between top 7 and the rest. 

[6666]

25 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

More Saudis. Good to see the Premier League learning it's lesson from the Abramovich embarrassment huh.

Saudi Media Group are supposed to be separate from the government. Obviously we can argue about how separate they actually are but I don't think peddling conspiracy theories is productive...

To be honest, not even sure what lesson is supposed to be learned from Abramovich. Still don't know what connection he has to this war happening other than him being Russian.

This attitude of going after anyone from a country whose government is bad, isn't good in my opinion.

This is supposedly a bid not backed by a government but you'll still see Mohammed Bin Salman's face being associated for no reason. Borderline xenophobic to be honest. I don't like it.

Edited March 14, 2022 by 6666

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

Saudi Media Group are supposed to be separate from the government. Obviously we can argue about how separate they actually are but I don't think peddling conspiracy theories is productive...

To be honest, not even sure what lesson is supposed to be learned from Abramovich. Still don't know what connection he has to this war happening other than him being Russian.

This attitude of going after anyone from a country whose government is bad, isn't good in my opinion

What conspiracy theory did I post?

Let's be honest. It's a bigger conspiracy theory to believe that the money that comes out of these countries is ever clean. The Saudi regime executed 81 people on Saturday and are also infamous for dismembering and murdering a journalist who said mean things about them. A Media Group that comes out of a country like that is, at best, silent on the crimes of said regime, else they wouldn't be allowed to exist in that state and they certainly wouldn't have accrued enough money to buy a football club.

If you choose to believe that these guys are likely to be legit then fine, but you're the one doing the mental gymnastics here.

As for the Abramovich thing. If you've already chosen your position on it then fair enough. I have nothing to add to whatever has already been said and left you unconvinced so I'm not going to waste my time going over old ground.

[6666]

11 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

What conspiracy theory did I post?

Let's be honest. It's a bigger conspiracy theory to believe that the money that comes out of these countries is ever clean. The Saudi regime executed 81 people on Saturday and are also infamous for dismembering and murdering a journalist who said mean things about them. A Media Group that comes out of a country like that is, at best, silent on the crimes of said regime, else they wouldn't be allowed to exist in that state and they certainly wouldn't have accrued enough money to buy a football club.

If you choose to believe that these guys are likely to be legit then fine, but you're the one doing the mental gymnastics here.

As for the Abramovich thing. If you've already chosen your position on it then fair enough. I have nothing to add to whatever has already been said and left you unconvinced so I'm not going to waste my time going over old ground.

So when I now see this Saudi Arabian man I have to see him as being complicit to executions and everything else that's wrong with Saudi Arabia...? And that's not supposed to be xenophobic?

People's paranoia and laziness when it comes to countries that aren't in our media that much, especially outside of politics, is pretty sad.

That's not mental gymnastics either. That's just a case of not being a bigot.

[Cicero]

For what its worth, Saudi Media Group have actually received some backlash in their own country for increasing  their company's workforce in women. They appear a bit more progressive than the norm in their country. 

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, 6666 said:

So when I now see this Saudi Arabian man I have to see him as being complicit to executions and everything else that's wrong with Saudi Arabia...? And that's not supposed to be xenophobic?

People's paranoia and laziness when it comes to countries that aren't in our media that much, especially outside of politics, is pretty sad.

That's not mental gymnastics either. That's just a case of not being a bigot.

If you genuinely think that being wary of billionaires from countries like Saudi Arabia makes me a bigot then fine. You do you.

[6666]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

If you genuinely think that being wary of billionaires from countries like Saudi Arabia makes me a bigot then fine. You do you.

There's being wary and then there's pouring all of their countries crimes on to them.

[RandoEFC+]

3 minutes ago, 6666 said:

There's being wary and then there's pouring all of their countries crimes on to them.

I've given you my reasoning, what else do you want? I've not poured all their countries crimes on them but this is a regime that murders journalists they don't like. Any media that's allowed to thrive in a country like that, if they don't have any *direct* links to the government, let's just say that I'm sure they know "how to behave".

It's not about them being Saudi either. They could be British expats for all I know. My opinion remains unchanged. So you can park the xenophobic/bigot shouts at the very least. Just because I have a slightly different view to you on this thing that we can both only speculate about doesn't mean that that's called for.

[Spike]

English football is a whore

[Spike]

Saudi Media Group pretty much answer to the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. So yes, they are very representative of whatever human rights violations occur in that country. They are literally the propaganda arm of the government,. 

Guess what, they are infiltrating the British media, they already own the Independent, now they will sportswash with Chelsea. Are the British so weak they kowtow to the songs and pocket money of foreign powers? Why can a foreign investor even own a British football team? Brexiting right into Arabia. 

English football is a corpse. 

[Spike]

Anybody excited or happy that a Russian oligarch is exiting for a Saudi oligarch is delusional. Sports clubs should be owned by communities and fans. Now they are tools and playthings by billionaires and regimes buying positive PR with western nations.

Even American sports are more honest, they are just owned by people looking to make money, there is no smoke and mirrors, just revenue and that transparency is refreshing and honest.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Spike

[Bluewolf]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

Anybody excited or happy that a Russian oligarch is exiting for a Saudi oligarch is delusional.

It could be anyone that gets the nod.... There are over 200 interested parties currently that would put the funds together to buy the club which is why the club won't go down and that's the most important part... What funds they might have or what model they operate under is yet to be seen when someone finally puts pen to paper and the deal is done.. If it's someone who just wants to make money then the days of splashing the cash will be gone and the model will be more frugal which may mean we may drop off being a top 4 side for a while while wages and expenses are brought into line. If on the other hand they have money to spend then they may continue to fund signings and spend money in the fashion we have been used to... 

I am fully expecting us to take a hit somewhere along the line but what does amuse me is all these other fans spitting venom hoping we would fold and crash and burn won't happen and it would amuse me if someone as rich as or richer took over... 

I have found the sanctions against the club to be a tad over the top.. I could understand it when Abramovich was still at the helm but having had those assets seized and being booted from the club why are sponsors continuing to play hard ball by pulling agreements.. It's not a Russian club and as long as the club has no connection to him in anyway I don't see why they can't carry on supporting the club.. If the Government has frozen his assets then any future money coming in from matchday tickets/merch and sponsors won't be going in his pocket.. 

The other thing I was reading the other day was that any sale of the club would be put towards the Ukraine cause or, and this is a tad concerning, that the money would go into a 'special account' What the fuck is that supposed to mean??? It should go straight to the Ukraine cause.. If this government try and set up a special account where those funds just disappear then 3Billion is not something I would trust our government being in control of... 

 

[MUFC]

31 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

It could be anyone that gets the nod.... There are over 200 interested parties currently that would put the funds together to buy the club which is why the club won't go down and that's the most important part... What funds they might have or what model they operate under is yet to be seen when someone finally puts pen to paper and the deal is done.. If it's someone who just wants to make money then the days of splashing the cash will be gone and the model will be more frugal which may mean we may drop off being a top 4 side for a while while wages and expenses are brought into line. If on the other hand they have money to spend then they may continue to fund signings and spend money in the fashion we have been used to... 

I am fully expecting us to take a hit somewhere along the line but what does amuse me is all these other fans spitting venom hoping we would fold and crash and burn won't happen and it would amuse me if someone as rich as or richer took over... 

I have found the sanctions against the club to be a tad over the top.. I could understand it when Abramovich was still at the helm but having had those assets seized and being booted from the club why are sponsors continuing to play hard ball by pulling agreements.. It's not a Russian club and as long as the club has no connection to him in anyway I don't see why they can't carry on supporting the club.. If the Government has frozen his assets then any future money coming in from matchday tickets/merch and sponsors won't be going in his pocket.. 

The other thing I was reading the other day was that any sale of the club would be put towards the Ukraine cause or, and this is a tad concerning, that the money would go into a 'special account' What the fuck is that supposed to mean??? It should go straight to the Ukraine cause.. If this government try and set up a special account where those funds just disappear then 3Billion is not something I would trust our government being in control of... 

 

https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle

[Inverted]

The thing with Saudi Arabia is that when a country's economy is overwhelmingly based on one resource, and that resource is largely state-controlled, it is very easy to connect almost any wealth in the country with the state and the government.

Of course, the economic elite of all countries is in effect the ruling class, and in almost all countries have a large influence and inter-connection with the state, but the closeness becomes even more obvious the less diversified the economy is and the more heavily-involved the state is with the economy. 

[Waylander]

The EPL as far as I know is clean with no corruption bar aome official incompetence, some slight bias on the part of officials at times, some swayed by the crowd and some political re what Clattenburg said about Chelsea v Spurs a few year back when Leicester won the league.

However if you have too many clubs under the sway of one regime it raises the potential possibility for tentacles of power to reach out and perhaps influence the game corrupty. 

Now don't think these curent groups intend to do that though what the future brings who really knows. 

If there are good deals available from non Saudi groups, that would be my preference. 

[Stan]

Chelsea can't sell away tickets for the Boro game. So now they've asked the FA to have the game held behind closed doors. The audacity of that

 

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Inverted said:

The thing with Saudi Arabia is that when a country's economy is overwhelmingly based on one resource, and that resource is largely state-controlled, it is very easy to connect almost any wealth in the country with the state and the government.

Of course, the economic elite of all countries is in effect the ruling class, and in almost all countries have a large influence and inter-connection with the state, but the closeness becomes even more obvious the less diversified the economy is and the more heavily-involved the state is with the economy. 

it is not a crime for a country to make money and making money doesn't make it illegal.   

[Cicero]

Asking for the Boro game to be played behind closed doors is a crass decision by the club. It's not Boro's fault our situation and you can't deprive fans their biggest game for years because of our misfortune. Presumably we can't sell away tickets from now on so with Arsenal, Brentford and Watford coming up they can't ask for the games to be behind closed doors because they will have no fans in attendance.

[Inverted]

38 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

it is not a crime for a country to make money and making money doesn't make it illegal.   

It's not that they're making money, it's everything else. And what we're talking about is whether the various rich people in the country are connected or complicit in those other things that the country is doing.

The thing that makes Saudi Arabia a fairly unique country is that the entire economy is basically reliant on one sector - oil - and even the other sectors are also largely dependent on that sector. And the government is in almost total control of the oil.

The point of mentioning this, is that even many nominally private companies or non-state entities, are connected and in effect owe their status to the government anyway. It is very difficult to draw a clear line between the Saudi government and Saudi private enterprise, because the whole economy owes its success to a state-controlled industry.

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 hours ago, 6666 said:

Saudi Media Group are supposed to be separate from the government. Obviously we can argue about how separate they actually are but I don't think peddling conspiracy theories is productive...

To be honest, not even sure what lesson is supposed to be learned from Abramovich. Still don't know what connection he has to this war happening other than him being Russian.

This attitude of going after anyone from a country whose government is bad, isn't good in my opinion.

This is supposedly a bid not backed by a government but you'll still see Mohammed Bin Salman's face being associated for no reason. Borderline xenophobic to be honest. I don't like it.

Abramovich is meant to be separate from Putin too, yet we know that isn’t the case.

[MUFC]

 

[OrangeKhrush]

I see conjecture on Abramovich's apparent links to putin yet most of them seem old relating to 2005,  and other claims that have never been tested yet the west in 2022 is guilty until proven innocent.    the other conjecture is,  x invests in a company since 2007,  in 2022 it is alleged the company sold materials to the government (big shock this happens a lot),  then somehow these exact materials build equipment.   We live in a society anaesthetised to due process

[Dr. Gonzo]

31 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I see conjecture on Abramovich's apparent links to putin yet most of them seem old relating to 2005,  and other claims that have never been tested yet the west in 2022 is guilty until proven innocent.    the other conjecture is,  x invests in a company since 2007,  in 2022 it is alleged the company sold materials to the government (big shock this happens a lot),  then somehow these exact materials build equipment.   We live in a society anaesthetised to due process

He's had close ties to Boris Yeltsin and Roman Abramovich - it's naive to think a man with intensely close government relations no longer has close relationships with government. Particularly a man credited with introducing the first post-Soviet Russian president with the long-time autocrat in charge of Russia today.

[Pyfish+]

Their match is going ahead at Middlesbrough now - they've pulled the request to play it behind closed doors.