European Super League

[Happy Blue]

1 minute ago, Mel81x said:

If that's the case then any kind of punishment will make them go back to the SL so should they just not be punished and everyone goes back to thinking nothing ever happened? 

I think this was just to get UEFA in line with the new changes they want to bring in, they cant touch them or there competition will be trash when the best teams in the world leave it

[Mel81x+]

Just now, Happy Blue said:

I think this was just to get UEFA in line with the new changes they want to bring in, they cant touch them or there competition will be trash when the best teams in the world leave it

That might be true and if it is then we'll never know. I dont think it will be let go that easily though and it makes this whole scenario seem like these clubs can do whatever they want and when things dont go right they can just say sorry and everything is alright once again. 

[Happy Blue]

2 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

That might be true and if it is then we'll never know. I dont think it will be let go that easily though and it makes this whole scenario seem like these clubs can do whatever they want and when things dont go right they can just say sorry and everything is alright once again. 

With the amount of top clubs involved i think all UEFA can do here is make some money out of it sadly, the clubs hold the power, if they ban one then they have to ban them all, it's not going to happen is it?

[Seve]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

Again, the fans, managers & players of clubs further down the football pyramid get punished with points deductions in the past for toxic owners that come in...

You seem to skip this point.

But why should the fans and players etc be punished for the actions of the owners, who didn't discuss or consult with them?

I believe the fans of all the clubs involved stood up for what was right and protested, shoulder to metaphorical shoulder with those of the clubs that were not involved

The idea is to learn from the past, not follow it blindly

[Stan]

I'm still trying to work out how Spurs got the invite based on this logic

 

 

 

[Seve]

So what is wrong with the Champions League as it is now? IMO nothing really

The plan is now to increase the number of participants and matches in future, but how will this change things?

More clubs will get more money, but what will they do with it?

Spend it on transfer fees and player wages. But players are already well paid and it’s not the players who are complaining about not getting enough money, its rich club owners. However, like an overheated property market, more money available only drives prices up, it doesn’t change the intrinsic value of the land and buildings.

The Real Madrid owner is crying that he doesn’t have enough money to maintain Real’s dominant position in Spanish football.  Other than Madrid fans, who cares? If Real can’t afford to buy or pay certain players then they should live within their means, like any prudent club or business.

Outside of Spain itself, I believe La Liga would become a more popular and marketable product if more teams were in the hunt for the title. I know my interest in La Liga was higher back in the days when teams like Valencia and Deportivo La Coruna were in contention. These days even Athletico are barely a factor, as it looks like Real and Barcelona may run them down in the home straight. Italy and Germany have become even worse, with a single club winning the title every season, although, finally, Inter seem set for a breakthrough. Again both of those leagues would be more popular marketable overseas if they were more competitive.

On the other hand, there is the Champions League, where the established big name Continental clubs, like Real, also feel a sense of entitlement. They fear that the EPL TV money has tipped the financial balance in favour of the English clubs, making it increasingly harder for them to maintain their privileged position. From their perspective, any additional money they will earn from expanding the current Champions League schedule achieves nothing, because the English clubs who qualify will also receive the same amount of additional money, thus negating any benefit. The cost of transfer fees and player wages become even more inflated. It increases the gap between them and their domestic rivals but does nothing to help them compete with the English.

So rather than try and make their own domestic leagues more competitive and attractive to overseas TV viewers, they chose to try and steal the “crown jewels” by setting up a Super League to benefit them and damage the EPL brand, which failed. The big EPL clubs of recent times saw a chance to grab a larger share of the pie and secure their own position, free of competition from inconvenient upstarts like Leicester.

The problem of money in football remains the same as it has always been, the only difference this time is that Real are the ones who are finding it hard to compete financially. Real and co just don’t like being on the receiving end for a change, and they will continue to try and find a way to maintain their position of privilege.

Meanwhile the Americans just don’t like the idea of an untidy myriad of domestic leagues. They want a monopoly league, like those they are used to at home, where the MLB, NFL, NBA etc rule the World in their respective sports. They see that as the best way to maximise commercial revenue, a view which is correct from a purely financial standpoint. However they completely failed to understand the tribal passion of association football culture, which far surpasses that in American sports. Nor do they place any value on the international aspect of football, which is largely ignored and even suppressed by the domestic American sports, who are at best reluctant to release players and generally discourage them from participating.

A battle has been won but the war will probably never be over...

[Rucksackfranzose]

17 minutes ago, Seve said:

So what is wrong with the Champions League as it is now? IMO nothing really

The plan is now to increase the number of participants and matches in future, but how will this change things?

More clubs will get more money, but what will they do with it?

Spend it on transfer fees and player wages. But players are already well paid and it’s not the players who are complaining about not getting enough money, its rich club owners. However, like an overheated property market, more money available only drives prices up, it doesn’t change the intrinsic value of the land and buildings.

The Real Madrid owner is crying that he doesn’t have enough money to maintain Real’s dominant position in Spanish football.  Other than Madrid fans, who cares? If Real can’t afford to buy or pay certain players then they should live within their means, like any prudent club or business.

Outside of Spain itself, I believe La Liga would become a more popular and marketable product if more teams were in the hunt for the title. I know my interest in La Liga was higher back in the days when teams like Valencia and Deportivo La Coruna were in contention. These days even Athletico are barely a factor, as it looks like Real and Barcelona may run them down in the home straight. Italy and Germany have become even worse, with a single club winning the title every season, although, finally, Inter seem set for a breakthrough. Again both of those leagues would be more popular marketable overseas if they were more competitive.

On the other hand, there is the Champions League, where the established big name Continental clubs, like Real, also feel a sense of entitlement. They fear that the EPL TV money has tipped the financial balance in favour of the English clubs, making it increasingly harder for them to maintain their privileged position. From their perspective, any additional money they will earn from expanding the current Champions League schedule achieves nothing, because the English clubs who qualify will also receive the same amount of additional money, thus negating any benefit. The cost of transfer fees and player wages become even more inflated. It increases the gap between them and their domestic rivals but does nothing to help them compete with the English.

So rather than try and make their own domestic leagues more competitive and attractive to overseas TV viewers, they chose to try and steal the “crown jewels” by setting up a Super League to benefit them and damage the EPL brand, which failed. The big EPL clubs of recent times saw a chance to grab a larger share of the pie and secure their own position, free of competition from inconvenient upstarts like Leicester.

The problem of money in football remains the same as it has always been, the only difference this time is that Real are the ones who are finding it hard to compete financially. Real and co just don’t like being on the receiving end for a change, and they will continue to try and find a way to maintain their position of privilege.

Meanwhile the Americans just don’t like the idea of an untidy myriad of domestic leagues. They want a monopoly league, like those they are used to at home, where the MLB, NFL, NBA etc rule the World in their respective sports. They see that as the best way to maximise commercial revenue, a view which is correct from a purely financial standpoint. However they completely failed to understand the tribal passion of association football culture, which far surpasses that in American sports. Nor do they place any value on the international aspect of football, which is largely ignored and even suppressed by the domestic American sports, who are at best reluctant to release players and generally discourage them from participating.

A battle has been won but the war will probably never be over...

Why would that matter to us Europeans,? This is a genuine question, it's not like the Americans would introduce relegation in their sports to adept to European habits, so why should we bother to consider what they want?

[Seve]

2 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Why would that matter to us Europeans,? This is a genuine question, it's not like the Americans would introduce relegation in their sports to adept to European habits, so why should we bother to consider what they want?

I didn't say it should, I was just explaining the Americans point of view

Europeans should continue to suit themselves and I'm sure they will

[Machado]

23 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I’d take him as an England manager, I’m sure a lot wouldn’t though... but I would.

Would you take him as Portugal’s manager?

Not while Ronaldo is around.

[LFCMike]

9 hours ago, Rick said:

Didn’t they all sign agreements? Which in itself is against the rules of the Premier League. I’m not saying they will be punished, I’m just saying they have done more than just put something on the internet. 

I suppose this is where lawyers come in with regards to the wording of the rule

[Stan]

 

 

I think he's getting confused with the Spurs protest. 

[Dave]

A lot of waffle from Florentino Perez last night again.

- Suggests one PL top six club wasn't convinced and that caused the others to buckle. Before Chelsea fans get excited, he later suggested that was a Manchester club.

- Said top six in England lose money and the others make money which is not fair.

- Said all Spanish clubs are losing his money.

- Took no responsibility for Real Madrids financial situation.

- No mention of David Alaba's wages.

 

It's a classic case of Emperor's New Clothes with this guy. Everyone is telling him he's great and there's no criticism. Why are journalists not questioning his role in the Spanish TV deal? Real Madrid spending beyond their means? His presumed knowledge of PL finances? And his downright lies when he's downplaying the protests?

[Inverted]

One fundamental problem is that Real and Barca and Juve think they have a god given right to be the best teams in Europe every year (which has never historically been the case) and they will spend whatever they think it takes to achieve that.

But their clubs just don’t have the muscle to sustain that, even with borderline guaranteed CL and unfair TV deals in their favour. No club can or should be able to ever sustain their kind of wastage forever.

But rather than downsize a bit and rebuild, they’d rather do all this. Because from their perspective, if a club like theirs can’t afford the biggest, flashiest names, then something must be terribly wrong with football - not with them. 

[Happy Blue]

36 minutes ago, Stan said:

I think he's getting confused with the Spurs protest. 

They was protesting the other teams pulling out! 

[Stan]

30 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

A lot of waffle from Florentino Perez last night again.

- Suggests one PL top six club wasn't convinced and that caused the others to buckle. Before Chelsea fans get excited, he later suggested that was a Manchester club.

- Said top six in England lose money and the others make money which is not fair.

- Said all Spanish clubs are losing his money.

- Took no responsibility for Real Madrids financial situation.

- No mention of David Alaba's wages.

 

It's a classic case of Emperor's New Clothes with this guy. Everyone is telling him he's great and there's no criticism. Why are journalists not questioning his role in the Spanish TV deal? Real Madrid spending beyond their means? His presumed knowledge of PL finances? And his downright lies when he's downplaying the protests?

or true.

Every club in the league (I think?) lost money this financial year, with COVID being a big catalyst for that. Yet he then pleads poverty as if COVID affected poor old Real Madrid more than anyone else. 

[Honey Honey]

Every time Perez opens his mouth he makes life harder for 6 English clubs. Clubs that were silent, didn't even attempt to pitch to or woo the public. If Perez is left to be the spokesperson ESL is dead for a long time.

We all knew before this that Spanish football was the most bent, that German football had the strongest ethics, that Italian football would go along with any other big clubs and that English football was in denial about what it really is. The whole thing is predictable.

[Stan]

I'm not entirely hopeful there's been such a sea of change so quickly and perhaps there needs to be a bit of time for further change to happen, but the optimist in me hopes this is a good start for how things will be in the future... 

 

[Danny]

3 hours ago, Inverted said:

One fundamental problem is that Real and Barca and Juve think they have a god given right to be the best teams in Europe every year (which has never historically been the case) and they will spend whatever they think it takes to achieve that.

But their clubs just don’t have the muscle to sustain that, even with borderline guaranteed CL and unfair TV deals in their favour. No club can or should be able to ever sustain their kind of wastage forever.

But rather than downsize a bit and rebuild, they’d rather do all this. Because from their perspective, if a club like theirs can’t afford the biggest, flashiest names, then something must be terribly wrong with football - not with them. 

This is the problem, historically in football there have never been examples of clubs who consistently and always win major silverware, peaks and troughs at best. These types of deals aim to change that

[Cicero]

‘Suffer consequences’: Uefa to discuss punishments for Super League rebels

[6666]

The Man Utd fans that decided to break into a training session are bunch of morons. Did they think they were going to find the Glazers running around there?

[RandoEFC+]

15 minutes ago, 6666 said:

The Man Utd fans that decided to break into a training session are bunch of morons. Did they think they were going to find the Glazers running around there?

I mean I wouldn't do it myself but now they're in the headlines again and it's bad press for the Glazers so in a sense, you sort of have to say they've achieved their goal.

[Stan]

45 minutes ago, 6666 said:

The Man Utd fans that decided to break into a training session are bunch of morons. Did they think they were going to find the Glazers running around there?

Not that moronic. It gets the publicity against Glazers and keeps that in the headlines. I bet they themselves didn't expect to see Glazers just pop out for a chat. It's just about making a statement and doing some form of protest without really causing harm to anyone. 

[Stan]

Kroenke apologises to Arteta. Will need more than this to appease majority of others

Quote

 

Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta says owner Stan Kroenke has apologised to him over the club's aborted attempt to join the European Super League.

The Spaniard added that football fans had sent "the strongest message" over their opposition to the ESL.

Arteta said he had spoken to Kroenke, while Arsenal chief executive Vinai Venkatesham had addressed the players.

He said they accepted the ESL episode "has had terrible consequences and it was a mistake".

The Gunners were one of 12 clubs, including English counterparts Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham, to sign up to the ESL, which was announced on Sunday.

All six withdrew on Tuesday, with Arsenal apologising in an open letter to their fans.

"They [the owners] have the maximum responsibility to run the football club and what they said was: 'apologies for disturbing the team, we did it without the capacity to communicate in a different way earlier and pass on my message to the players' - that is all you can ask for," said Arteta.

"I found out just a little bit before the news was leaked. And then everything was completely out of control and the world reacted in a really unified manner.

"There was not really time to think about it, reflect and evaluate or anything because by the time that was out, a big tsunami already came on to it and basically killed it.

"Vinai spoke to me and explained a little bit what was happening. He was very clear and transparent with me.

"I understand the reasons why we could not know. We were not involved in the decision."

"I think this has given big lessons and it shows the importance of football in the world," said Arteta.

"And it shows that the soul of this sport belongs to the fans - and that's it. During this pandemic, for a year, we have been trying to sustain this industry with no fans in the stadium.

"But, when the fans have to come out to talk, they've done it really loud and clear, and they sent probably the strongest message that has ever been sent in the football world.

"And every club, leaving their interests apart, has done the right thing - which is, they are the ones [the fans], we have to listen to them, we put it aside and in 24 hours we kill the project.

"So that is a massive statement for the history of football."

 

Agree with Arteta's words in bold. 

[Azeem]

What's the possibility of Barcelona or Real going bankrupt if they keep losing money ?

[6666]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Not that moronic. It gets the publicity against Glazers and keeps that in the headlines. I bet they themselves didn't expect to see Glazers just pop out for a chat. It's just about making a statement and doing some form of protest without really causing harm to anyone. 

To me it makes the fans look like dumb pricks so I wouldn't consider it a win but I guess if the media run with it as a stick to beat the Glazers with then I guess they get what they wanted regardless of how stupid it is.