Leicester City 3-1 Liverpool - Saturday 13th February, 2021

[Cicero]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So why is Thiago so crap after everyone at Bayern talked about him like he was Xabi Alonso on crack?

Different systems. 

[Dan+]

Not being able to go to his Mums funeral is absolutely disgraceful and frankly inhumane.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Different systems. 

I don’t think it’s just that. He just seems so bad at the basics - was he this shit at tackling in Germany?

[Cicero]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don’t think it’s just that. He just seems so bad at the basics - was he this shit at tackling in Germany?

His weaknesses are highlighted because he's playing in a system that doesn't get out his strengths. Need to remember he had Kimmich and Goretzka doing the dirty work for him. 

 We played Werner at LW the majority of the season where is was hugging the touchline. He's a player that needs to be fed chances, not create them. His wastefulness was highlighted because he received so few chances in a game at LW. Havertz is a player that produced Messi like numbers last season. He played in a system that was built around him. We have yet to do anything like that here and he just looks out of place atm. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

13 minutes ago, Cicero said:

His weaknesses are highlighted because he's playing in a system that doesn't get out his strengths. Need to remember he had Kimmich and Goretzka doing the dirty work for him. 

 We played Werner at LW the majority of the season where is was hugging the touchline. He's a player that needs to be fed chances, not create them. His wastefulness was highlighted because he received so few chances in a game at LW. Havertz is a player that produced Messi like numbers last season. He played in a system that was built around him. We have yet to do anything like that here and he just looks out of place atm. 

I’m sure Thiago would look much better if he had Henderson and Fabinho alongside him - but it’s just so strange having a midfielder that’s best described as pretty fucking crap when we don’t have the ball.

Werner played cutting in from the left a lot in Germany, tbh it feels like Lampard signed him for his goal record knowing he played on the left without ever watching him.

And with Havertz, I always thought that was the risk with his quoted price. He’s clearly talented, but he’s made his name for himself at a club where everything is built around him. At a bigger club, he was never going to have the attack built around him - at least not initially. He’d have to demonstrate he’s good enough to have a side built around him.

But for Thiago, it truly is a shame our problems at the back have led to midfielders playing at the back and making our midfield so bad. And it’s very unfortunate Milner picked up an injury and had to come off so we would get another example of Thiago being an absolute liability.

I hope we can play 2 CBs in our defense again and get our first choice midfielders back ASAP... but it’s not looking likely.

[Lucas]

From what I've seen this season, Thiago doesn't get as much time and space to run the game as he'd like.

And I put that down to teams pressing more in the Premier League than the Bundesliga. 

Having better players around him at Bayern helped but still, a lot of players do tend to come to our league and find it hard initially due to the physicality and pace.

[Cicero]

Aye that's the staggering difference between both leagues. Both Havertz and Werner commented on the pace after their debut's against Brighton. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So why is Thiago so crap after everyone at Bayern talked about him like he was Xabi Alonso on crack?

 

5 hours ago, Cicero said:

Different systems. 

No, not different systems. 

Why do you think one of the worlds best teams were so keen to get him off the books? 

 

[Rick]

20 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

 

No, not different systems. 

Why do you think one of the worlds best teams were so keen to get him off the books? 

 

He started the champions league final. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

3 hours ago, Rick said:

He started the champions league final. 

Sure he did. Over who? Tolisso and Coutinho. A midfielder Bayern use to blow away teams like mine, and an on loan attacking midfielder unsuitable for the role. 

He was showing signs of wear and tear, and obviously getting on in age. And you guys snapped him up. You win some you lose some. 

[Rick]

Just now, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Sure he did. Over who? Tolisso and Coutinho. A midfielder Bayern use to blow away teams like mine, and an on loan attacking midfielder unsuitable for the role. 

He was showing signs of wear and tear, and obviously getting on in age. And you guys snapped him up. You win some you lose some. 

I think it’s a very simple way of looking at it. He played the biggest games for Bayern, and is only 30. He’s not some old, broken dog. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Just now, Rick said:

I think it’s a very simple way of looking at it. He played the biggest games for Bayern, and is only 30. He’s not some old, broken dog. 

Your physio begs to differ. 

Last season he declined. Sure, he started over Tolisso. Big whoop. Bayern moved him on and the rest is history. You're overthinking it. Bayern aren't romantic about their transfers or replacements. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Jerome Boateng started the CL final. Does that make him good? Would you guys buy him were he for sale? 

[Rick]

2 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Jerome Boateng started the CL final. Does that make him good? Would you guys buy him were he for sale? 

Fair point

[Dr. Gonzo]

I don’t even think he looks physically unable to keep up, though. It’s just that he contributes nothing (other than liabilities with repeated stupid fouls) without the ball.

He just seems like a passenger during this tough run - I think he’s a luxury player with the injury crisis we’ve got right now. I bet he would look better if we had Henderson/Fabinho doing some of the dirty work for him. But currently it’s not really a luxury we can afford.

I just hope he gets a bit fucking better, because between him and Gini seeming to give less of a fuck on the pitch knowing he’s on the way out... it’s not making the injury issues & loss of form looking to have a likely end.

[UNIQUE]

just had a flick through and saw allison and thiago getting a bit of stick. crazy tbh. alli has been a top keeper for 5 years and he has had a shit month so should we judge him on 5 years or a shit month. i know how i will judge him. now onto thiago. we know the guy cant defend for shit thats easy to see but the guy is one of the best MF players in the world with the ball. with the injury problems liverpool have now he is being asked to do a job that is not good for him. now just look at this team for 1 minute.

...............ali..........

taa...gomez...vvd..robbo..

.....fabinho....thiago...henderson..

salah.....jota......mane.

now you have a team that pushes high up the pitch. you have hendo and fabinho that wins everything on the half way line and you have gomez and vvd that clean up everything that gets past them. in that team the only thing thiago would need to do is just get the ball and plant it on the foot of any player he wants too. at the start of the season before the injuries hit thiago in the few games he played was top class and run the games. with a fully fit team thiago would be top class. 

[Danny]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don’t even think he looks physically unable to keep up, though. It’s just that he contributes nothing (other than liabilities with repeated stupid fouls) without the ball.

He just seems like a passenger during this tough run - I think he’s a luxury player with the injury crisis we’ve got right now. I bet he would look better if we had Henderson/Fabinho doing some of the dirty work for him. But currently it’s not really a luxury we can afford.

I just hope he gets a bit fucking better, because between him and Gini seeming to give less of a fuck on the pitch knowing he’s on the way out... it’s not making the injury issues & loss of form looking to have a likely end.

I’m surprised you’ve not changed your opinion now the anger has worn off. You signed Thiago after the season started so he had no pre-season, he tested positive for covid before his 2nd game of the season for Liverpool. Then came back and got injured by Richarlison in the derby and was out for months. He returned late December, didn’t make his home debut until January, from when you signed him up until that Newcastle game Liverpool played 23 games and he played 2 of them. That’s Everton and Newcastle.

No pre-season, barely played a game for 2 and a half months after signing, new club, new league that is extremely physical, gets fit again and is chucked into the middle of your biggest slump and injury crisis under Klopp and you really expect him to be performing well? Pulling you out of this? Calling him a luxury is so beyond what is actually happening.

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 minutes ago, Danny said:

I’m surprised you’ve not changed your opinion now the anger has worn off. You signed Thiago after the season started so he had no pre-season, he tested positive for covid before his 2nd game of the season for Liverpool. Then came back and got injured by Richarlison in the derby and was out for months. He returned late December, didn’t make his home debut until January, from when you signed him up until that Newcastle game Liverpool played 23 games and he played 2 of them. That’s Everton and Newcastle.

No pre-season, barely played a game for 2 and a half months after signing, new club, new league that is extremely physical, gets fit again and is chucked into the middle of your biggest slump and injury crisis under Klopp and you really expect him to be performing well? Pulling you out of this? Calling him a luxury is so beyond what is actually happening.

I don’t see why I shouldn’t be critical of a player that routinely gets the basics wrong while we’re in a bad slump, though tbh.

It’s not like I’m calling for him to be taken out back and be shot.

I’m calling on him to play better. Or at very least not to make stupid shit fouls repeatedly over and over. And if he can’t contribute off the ball, then Klopp needs to switch him and Ginis roles until we can get Henderson or Fabinho back in midfield

[Mel81x+]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don’t see why I shouldn’t be critical of a player that routinely gets the basics wrong while we’re in a bad slump, though tbh.

It’s not like I’m calling for him to be taken out back and be shot.

I’m calling on him to play better. Or at very least not to make stupid shit fouls repeatedly over and over. And if he can’t contribute off the ball, then Klopp needs to switch him and Ginis roles until we can get Henderson or Fabinho back in midfield

I'm with you on the basics part but you have to understand in that foul for the last game he went in to offer a press and yeah its unfortunate but I don't think we can entirely blame him for it. He'll come good for us, the real question is when is he going to play in the system he was brought to the club for vs a makeshift one. We got a glimpse of this versus Everton earlier in the season and we haven't since. 

[Danny]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don’t see why I shouldn’t be critical of a player that routinely gets the basics wrong while we’re in a bad slump, though tbh.

It’s not like I’m calling for him to be taken out back and be shot.

I’m calling on him to play better. Or at very least not to make stupid shit fouls repeatedly over and over. And if he can’t contribute off the ball, then Klopp needs to switch him and Ginis roles until we can get Henderson or Fabinho back in midfield

Aye but playing better will come with time, experience in the league, training with the team, learning Klopp’s style. He’s literally had the worst possible start you could have in terms of trying to fit into a new club and league

[Devil]

10 hours ago, UNIQUE said:

just had a flick through and saw allison and thiago getting a bit of stick. crazy tbh. alli has been a top keeper for 5 years and he has had a shit month so should we judge him on 5 years or a shit month. i know how i will judge him. now onto thiago. we know the guy cant defend for shit thats easy to see but the guy is one of the best MF players in the world with the ball. with the injury problems liverpool have now he is being asked to do a job that is not good for him. now just look at this team for 1 minute.

...............ali..........

taa...gomez...vvd..robbo..

.....fabinho....thiago...henderson..

salah.....jota......mane.

now you have a team that pushes high up the pitch. you have hendo and fabinho that wins everything on the half way line and you have gomez and vvd that clean up everything that gets past them. in that team the only thing thiago would need to do is just get the ball and plant it on the foot of any player he wants too. at the start of the season before the injuries hit thiago in the few games he played was top class and run the games. with a fully fit team thiago would be top class. 

One of the best midfielders in the world or not so far he's not looked like he can gel into Liverpool's system. Thiago is a exceptional footballer but Liverpool's system just doesn't suit him one bit, I'd go as far as saying he's the wrong end of the motorway and he should be in Pep's team at City. 

My early prediction is Liverpool will realise he doesn't suit their game sell him back to a Spanish club in the summer, fantastic player but unfortunately he just doesn't suit Liverpool. 

As for your lot, it's a bad season but it wouldn't a quarter as bad if you VVD and Gomez. Defensively they are a rock as a pair and it allows the rest to bomb on and hit hard on the break. Liverpool at the moment are just so easy to counter as they bomb forward and leave players who aren't top level CB's to cover for them. 

[LFCMike]

8 minutes ago, Devil said:

One of the best midfielders in the world or not so far he's not looked like he can gel into Liverpool's system. Thiago is a exceptional footballer but Liverpool's system just doesn't suit him one bit, I'd go as far as saying he's the wrong end of the motorway and he should be in Pep's team at City. 

My early prediction is Liverpool will realise he doesn't suit their game sell him back to a Spanish club in the summer, fantastic player but unfortunately he just doesn't suit Liverpool. 

As for your lot, it's a bad season but it wouldn't a quarter as bad if you VVD and Gomez. Defensively they are a rock as a pair and it allows the rest to bomb on and hit hard on the break. Liverpool at the moment are just so easy to counter as they bomb forward and leave players who aren't top level CB's to cover for them. 

You talk about Liverpool's system. We've not seen him in Liverpool's system apart from 45 minutes v Chelsea and the full game v Everton.

[Devil]

33 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

You talk about Liverpool's system. We've not seen him in Liverpool's system apart from 45 minutes v Chelsea and the full game v Everton.

My mates a Liverpool fan he gets really defensive when I say Thiago doesn't fit into Liverpool's system as well. 

You know how Liverpool play, incredible work rate and fantastic fast counter attacks in waves. Liverpool, or should I say this Liverpool side attack from all angles, it's impossible to play against because from the full backs through the midfield to the attack the game is about get the ball forward as quickly as possible and to have runners going off at all angles. It works so well because if the wide men don't hurt you the ball is pull back and the midfield is bombing on as well. 

Thiago has never played a system that breaks like that, he's a possession based footballer and yeah fair enough he's not played a large amount of games due to injury but I've seen enough to suggest he's struggling with it. Look we've had Veron back in the day, they come in absolute top class players and the league and football just blows their mind, yet you play them further down the line when they are back in their continental comfort zone and they are back at their best. 

Stand by prediction, I think he will be gone in the summer. Same with Van De Beek at United, he already looks like he want's out already. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Devil said:

Stand by prediction, I think he will be gone in the summer. Same with Van De Beek at United, he already looks like he want's out already. 

On the flip side, it might take some players longer to settle in new clubs and there's a lot to do with managers managing expectations for those players. Of course some come with a huge reputation right from the start. Mahrez at Man City for example; took him a year to settle down and perhaps adapt to Guardiola and the intensity of pressure to succeed at all costs. After that though, there was a period where he was unstoppable. 

We all think managers should be given time to prove themselves - I think in some cases, that time should be afforded to players too. Thiago fits in to that category (injuries don't help either in any case). If after 2-3 seasons he's still not hitting those heights as expected, and not performing consistently to an elite level where Liverpool are at, then yeah maybe think about selling. The risk of that is that the game or club could change so quickly - Klopp might go before that time period, other players might leave/come in which affect the 'system' and therefore the player. A truly world class player shouldn't have to rely on other players in the side to make themselves play better, in my opinion. 

[Devil]

9 minutes ago, Stan said:

On the flip side, it might take some players longer to settle in new clubs and there's a lot to do with managers managing expectations for those players. Of course some come with a huge reputation right from the start. Mahrez at Man City for example; took him a year to settle down and perhaps adapt to Guardiola and the intensity of pressure to succeed at all costs. After that though, there was a period where he was unstoppable. 

We all think managers should be given time to prove themselves - I think in some cases, that time should be afforded to players too. Thiago fits in to that category (injuries don't help either in any case). If after 2-3 seasons he's still not hitting those heights as expected, and not performing consistently to an elite level where Liverpool are at, then yeah maybe think about selling. The risk of that is that the game or club could change so quickly - Klopp might go before that time period, other players might leave/come in which affect the 'system' and therefore the player. A truly world class player shouldn't have to rely on other players in the side to make themselves play better, in my opinion. 

He's 30 years of age Stan, if he was 24 then I'd tend to agree but it's hard to imagine anyone in the final few years of their career adapting when they've had 20 years of a different style drilled into them. 

Look I'd take him at United, I'd be willing to take the punt on him linking up well with Fernandes any day of the week but for me personally he doesn't fit the way they play.