(QF) Ukraine 0-4 England - Saturday 3rd July, 2021

[LFCMike]

9 hours ago, Whiskey said:

The bitterness towards England is honestly beautiful, everyone wants to be us. 

 

One of the reasons I hate England fans

[Devil-Dick Willie]

43 minutes ago, ToonArmy said:

One things for sure. We won' t be losing to the Czech Republic..... 

Like I said mate, descending order

[Devil-Dick Willie]

1 hour ago, The Premier Steve's said:

It's coming home is tongue and cheek. People need to get over themselves if that rattles them.

I don't believe for a single second that that is even close to a blanket rule. 

[ToonArmy]

Doesn't look like this England team are setting the country alight as much as the media are making out. 

 

Peak viewing figures for last night's match just 20.9m. 

 

For comparison England's other quarter finals at majors in the 21st century. :

 

England v Sweden 2018 - 19.9m

England v Italy 2012 - 23.2m

England v Portugal 2006 (??) 

England v Portugal 2004 - 23.9m

England v Brazil 2002 - 13.1m (daytime KO) 

[Honey Honey]

31 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I don't believe for a single second that that is even close to a blanket rule. 

Well a lot of people who aren't into football turn up for these events so they possibly don't understand the culture they're bandwagon jumping on and using.

The English pyramid is full of supporters who sing every week that they are "the greatest team the world has ever seen" or "the greatest fans the world has ever seen". Any team on a cup run starts to sing they're going to Wembley or some other chant about how they're going to win the cup. Hell, Newcastle fans sing it on the rare occasion we win a 3rd round cup tie against a League Two team. 

If it's rattling someone you know it's most likely because there's a chance it might actually happen or they're just a really tetchy rival who as I say needs to get over themselves. I bet there isn't a Man Utd fan in the world who would have gotten rattled by Man City singing that they're the greatest 15 years ago, but I bet today there'll be some twitching and wobbling when they hear it.

The chant is born in the tongue and cheek culture of English football. As the actual event gets closer the chant becomes a big part of the collective experience, excitement, hope and eventually memory.

[LFCMike]

33 minutes ago, shut up said:

Grow up you little virgin

Haha fuck off you massive bellend

[Whiskey]

10 minutes ago, ToonArmy said:

Doesn't look like this England team are setting the country alight as much as the media are making out. 

 

Peak viewing figures for last night's match just 20.9m. 

Love Island was on.

[ToonArmy]

8 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Love Island was on.

Tbh this is getting well out of football talk but it always bemuses me that ITV/BBC don't split the match from build up post in their schedules. 15m avg whole show last night, 19.8 match average. Think the convincing win prevented anything much higher as a peak. If Wed's night goes to pens then we could be looking at a colossal rating. 

[Dave]

50 minutes ago, ToonArmy said:

Doesn't look like this England team are setting the country alight as much as the media are making out. 

 

Peak viewing figures for last night's match just 20.9m. 

 

For comparison England's other quarter finals at majors in the 21st century. :

 

England v Sweden 2018 - 19.9m

England v Italy 2012 - 23.2m

England v Portugal 2006 (??) 

England v Portugal 2004 - 23.9m

England v Brazil 2002 - 13.1m (daytime KO) 

I'm not sure how that metric considers people going to pubs, bars, food venues etc that show the game.

[ToonArmy]

38 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I'm not sure how that metric considers people going to pubs, bars, food venues etc that show the game.

It's at home viewing, it's the best we've got unfortunately as they don't estimate pub viewers. Probably why Wed night matches tend to do better. 

 

It takes into account people at other people's houses in the sample (if you've got mates round you key them in) but not pubs and football clubs).  It's also patchy when it comes tk including streaming over the years. 

 

It's just been adjusted up to a 21.1m peak for last night though. 

 

 

[carefreeluke]

2 hours ago, The Premier Steve's said:

Well a lot of people who aren't into football turn up for these events so they possibly don't understand the culture they're bandwagon jumping on and using.

The English pyramid is full of supporters who sing every week that they are "the greatest team the world has ever seen" or "the greatest fans the world has ever seen". Any team on a cup run starts to sing they're going to Wembley or some other chant about how they're going to win the cup. Hell, Newcastle fans sing it on the rare occasion we win a 3rd round cup tie against a League Two team. 

If it's rattling someone you know it's most likely because there's a chance it might actually happen or they're just a really tetchy rival who as I say needs to get over themselves. I bet there isn't a Man Utd fan in the world who would have gotten rattled by Man City singing that they're the greatest 15 years ago, but I bet today there'll be some twitching and wobbling when they hear it.

The chant is born in the tongue and cheek culture of English football. As the actual event gets closer the chant becomes a big part of the collective experience, excitement, hope and eventually memory.

@Devil-Dick Willie

This is what I was trying to get at earlier in my Three Lions post. There's nothing self-entitled or arrogant at all about the 'It's Coming Home' monologue when the song for the most part is about England being shit. It's British humour and culture which is fucking weird at the best times but it's how we are, I think it's great and I do wonder how and why it gets misinterpreted elsewhere. If you're going off how England fans and Brits can be abroad and making some sort of connection there and I'd probably understand it but for the most part, it's tongue in cheek and a prevalent component of the British football match going culture.

[ToonArmy]

39 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

@Devil-Dick Willie

This is what I was trying to get at earlier in my Three Lions post. There's nothing self-entitled or arrogant at all about the 'It's Coming Home' monologue when the song for the most part is about England being shit. It's British humour and culture which is fucking weird at the best times but it's how we are, I think it's great and I do wonder how and why it gets misinterpreted elsewhere. If you're going off how England fans and Brits can be abroad and making some sort of connection there and I'd probably understand it but for the most part, it's tongue in cheek and a prevalent component of the British football matching going culture.

 

Played Three Lions, Vindaloo, World in Motion and England Til I Die when I woke up at 7am this morning full volume with the windows wide open in the pissing rain. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking pride in the first truly GREAT ENGLAND SIDE that we've seen in three or four generations. We're going all the way. I'll be doing the same next Sunday. 

[Michael]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The thing about this game is that was actually something we can definitively say “we were much better than the other side” - and in this tournament, Ukraine imo have looked much better than Croatia, the Czech Republic, and Scotland.

And while Germany aren’t at their best currently, we did make a side with a lot of quality players (because that German side still had a lot of quality) look worse than average.

Italy I think are definitely the team to beat left in the tournament. But honestly I think there’s 3 teams that have put in truly standout performances in this tournament… and we’re imo one of them.

I don’t really like Southgate or think he’s a good manager, but it’s hard to deny that he’s the best England manager in my lifetime. And I think if it was any other country, a side that’s conceded 0 and just put in a performance like that to make a semi final and there would be a lot of people knob slobbing for that side.

I think this is a very good analysis and reading of the situation. For people saying this Germany side is the worst German team for years, we have to acknowledge that they are still a side that contains a lot of quality players. Fair enough, they are evidently not as good as Germany's 2014 World Cup winning team for example, but if you just look at the names in their current team, then only someone rash in judgement would say that they aren't good. For England to win 2-0 against them and look well worth the money in doing so, is a very good achievement. I think one person said that this is the worst German team in the last 2 decades, that is definitely not the case. Germany's team at Euro 2000(they had many aging players), would have gotten battered by this current German side for example.

As for Ukraine, I think they are the best side in Eastern Europe along with Croatia. I say that with confidence as I watch all these teams and their players quite often. Yes, Ukraine are a more talented side than Hungary(if Ukraine had the home advantage like the Hungarians did at these Euros, they would likely have reaped even more positive results) and I'd definitely have Ukraine to beat Scotland over 2 legs. In terms of natural talent, I think Ukraine and Croatia have the most in the East of Europe, although both sides didn't play as well as they will have wanted in some games at these Euros. Lets face it, England were clinical and scored 4 past Ukraine, yeah the Ukrainian players were definitely very fatigued from previous games, but even if they weren't, England would still have been favourites for this match. 

The depth in this England squad for me, is very impressive and the talent in the team is in all areas of the pitch. But I think the squad unity and the cohesion within the team has also augmented their strength. The only part where I would disagree with you is regarding Southgate. I had my reservations about him when he first became England manager, perhaps still even after England's 2018 semi-final run, but he's done it again. England have once again reached the semis of a major international tournament and the team have done it in style. England haven't conceded a single goal and we've beaten opponents comfortably. The Czech Republic, Croatia, Ukraine and Germany are not mugs, they are all very respected sides at international level, that's just a fact. England are definitely my favourites to win these Euros and even all the bookies have them as firm favourites. They are doing so for good reason and I think Southgate has finally proven his credentials as England manager. I mean my question to you would be, what more has he got to do for you to class him as a good manager?

[carefreeluke]

5 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

It's a spot to be in for the English lads mate. 
They're in their 2nd quarter finals for the 2nd tournament in a row. They've beaten Germany at an international tournament, and only an Eriksonless Denmark stand between them and a cup final.

They're (most of them) hopeful, and so they should be.

Had Germany, poor as we were, beaten England then Ukraine I'd be hopeful too, despite Italy being Germany's Achilles often. 
But that hope, in my opinion, should be tempered with caution. I think a few of the guys have convinced themselves that England have every chance here, some probably consider themselves favorites. That's where I'm drawing the line between "optimistic" and "set up to fail"

Yes. England made the semis of the world cup, and now the Euro... BUT

Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Columbia AET
Czech Republic, Croatia, Germany, Ukraine

Is not an impressive CV

Yes they knocked out Germany... BUT

The worst German team in decades. A Germany who couldn't qualify from a world cup group of Sweden, Mexico and Korea. A Germany recently tonked 5-0 by Spain, a Germany who couldn't beat Hungary. 

Be hopeful, be optimistic. But please don't shove "it's coming home" down my throat, or I'll shove your loss to Italy/Spain/Denmark (in descending order of likeliness) down yours when the time comes.  

The 'It's Coming Home' stuff now aside, since 96, in major international tournaments, the England national team has either gone out on penalties or failed to get past countries like Iceland, Algeria, Romania, Slovakia, and Russia. A generation has grown up on disappointment and heartbreak where it was basically considered a fact that if an England team went to penalties, they wouldn't win. Moreover, if it didn't go to penalties, the nation thought, no matter how good our players were, we would find a way to fuck it up. Steve McClaren's umbrella, Southgate's penalty miss, David Beckham's red card and mentally freezing against Iceland are all moments (to name only a few) that are etched on national consciousness and are sadly moments deep down we have come to expect when following England.

The celebration and excitement in part are down to the fact that this England team is doing and has done what so many England teams have failed to do in past, get past teams like Ukraine, finally beat Germany in a knockout competition, and win a penalty shootout (2018). The last two in particular were more or less etched in stone on the national consciousness with the belief that they wouldn't be possible. You mention the easier paths England have had but England have tripped up along the way on those paths many times before.

This English team is likable, conducts themselves well, and is made up of players from a mixture of different clubs, so far they've given us a team to relate to and be proud of which is all anyone wants. I'm sorry if the 'It's Coming Home' bandwagon comes across as arrogant but if that's the case, it's really misunderstood.

[Azeem]

4 hours ago, The Premier Steve's said:

It's coming home is tongue and cheek. People need to get over themselves if that rattles them.

It offensive to the homeless community

[JoshBRFC+]

This dogs Ukrainian. Can we raise 30 grand for it please?

[ToonArmy]

2 hours ago, The Premier Steve's said:

Well a lot of people who aren't into football turn up for these events so they possibly don't understand the culture they're bandwagon jumping on and using.

The English pyramid is full of supporters who sing every week that they are "the greatest team the world has ever seen" or "the greatest fans the world has ever seen". Any team on a cup run starts to sing they're going to Wembley or some other chant about how they're going to win the cup. Hell, Newcastle fans sing it on the rare occasion we win a 3rd round cup tie against a League Two team. 

If it's rattling someone you know it's most likely because there's a chance it might actually happen or they're just a really tetchy rival who as I say needs to get over themselves. I bet there isn't a Man Utd fan in the world who would have gotten rattled by Man City singing that they're the greatest 15 years ago, but I bet today there'll be some twitching and wobbling when they hear it.

The chant is born in the tongue and cheek culture of English football. As the actual event gets closer the chant becomes a big part of the collective experience, excitement, hope and eventually memory.

By a lot, you're looking at well over half of the people watching. It's a bit like how everyone becomes an expert on Athletics during the Olympics.

[Lucas]

5 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

It's a spot to be in for the English lads mate. 
They're in their 2nd quarter finals for the 2nd tournament in a row. They've beaten Germany at an international tournament, and only an Eriksonless Denmark stand between them and a cup final.

They're (most of them) hopeful, and so they should be.

Had Germany, poor as we were, beaten England then Ukraine I'd be hopeful too, despite Italy being Germany's Achilles often. 
But that hope, in my opinion, should be tempered with caution. I think a few of the guys have convinced themselves that England have every chance here, some probably consider themselves favorites. That's where I'm drawing the line between "optimistic" and "set up to fail"

Yes. England made the semis of the world cup, and now the Euro... BUT

Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Columbia AET
Czech Republic, Croatia, Germany, Ukraine

Is not an impressive CV

Yes they knocked out Germany... BUT

The worst German team in decades. A Germany who couldn't qualify from a world cup group of Sweden, Mexico and Korea. A Germany recently tonked 5-0 by Spain, a Germany who couldn't beat Hungary. 

Be hopeful, be optimistic. But please don't shove "it's coming home" down my throat, or I'll shove your loss to Italy/Spain/Denmark (in descending order of likeliness) down yours when the time comes.  

Very quick to point out the easy run's we've had in the last two tournaments (Which is 100% true) but we've had years of bad luck. No one has mentioned this yet?

Maybe it's our time for a bit of good luck to compensate for the bad luck we've had previously.

WC '90 semi v Germany, even game, lose on pens. Unlucky

Euro '96 semi v Germany, have the better chances, Gazza within a cm of scoring a golden goal in extra time, lose on pens. Unlucky.

WC '98 L16 v Argentina, down to 10 men, Sol Campbell scores a legit goal disallowed in extra time, lose on pens. Really unlucky.

WC '02 QF v Brazil. Done by an absolute freak Ronaldinho goal. What can you say. Bad luck.

Euro '04 QF v Portugal. Winning 1-0, lose a bang in form young Wayne Rooney to injury, Portugal score a late goal, we're denied a legit winner in extra time and we lose again on pens. Extremely unlucky.

WC '06 QF v Portugal. Drab game from both then Ronaldo got Rooney sent off and we lost on pens. Another 50/50. Bad luck.

WC '10 L16 v Germany. Deservedly beaten however, Lampard 'equalises' with the ball a foot over the line and it doesn't count. Could have changed the game in a big way. Bad luck at a critical time.

Euro '12 QF v Italy. Lost another 50/50 situation on pens again. Bad luck.

We've had years of hurt against the very best. I don't think there is another country that can say they have had as much bad luck or moments as we've had. Our history could very easily have been different, especially the WC in 90, Euro's in '96 and '04 when we had really decent teams.

And I've not even mentioned Maradona's handball yet... 

So if we're getting the rub of the green with draws or in games at the mo, I couldn't give a monkeys because maybe its our time and we deserve it for the patience.

But ultimately, 'It's coming home' has never been intended to be used in an arrogant way, usually anyone that says it is laughed at because no one in England believes we'll ever do it  

Now we actually look like we have a chance, it's just a saying that unites everyone enjoying the ride from years of absolute shite. No one hand on heart assumes we'll win it from here but we've a bigger chance than we ever imagined and we're getting excited for it. Be happy for us.

[MUFC]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Haha fuck off you massive bellend

Any pics from various angels?

[Smiley Culture]

The lads on here from Home & Away will be devastated when they realise that some Scottish people who sung “Yes sir, I can boogie” actually cannot dance. 

 

[Michael]

IT'S COMING HOME, IT'S COMING HOME, FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME!

IT'S COMING HOME, IT'S COMING HOME, FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME!

IT'S COMING HOME, IT'S COMING HOME, FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME!

Sorry guys, I am just singing along to some random song that my neighbours are blasting out loud, it's quite catchy actually...

 

 

 

[nudge+]

7 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Any pics from various angels?

 

[ToonArmy]

7 minutes ago, Michael said:

IT'S COMING HOME, IT'S COMING HOME, FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME!

IT'S COMING HOME, IT'S COMING HOME, FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME!

IT'S COMING HOME, IT'S COMING HOME, FOOTBALL'S COMING HOME!

Sorry guys, I am just singing along to some random song that my neighbours are blasting out loud, it's quite catchy actually...

 

 

 

 

Honestly think if we make it to the final everyone should open their windows at 7.45pm just before the national anthems and blast Three Lions and Vindaloo out our windows nationwide, if we can't all be there in person it's a small show of support. 

[carefreeluke]

 

[Reluctant Striker]

It could well be Sir Gareth Southgate fairly soon.

Has to be the next available opportunity really if they do win the next 2.

Already Marcus Rashford MBE on the bench.

And Raheem Sterling MBE joint top scorer.

Goodness knows what Jordan Pickford starts being called.

Perhaps just a world class goalkeeper?