UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Honey Honey]

17 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I dont really have enough knowledge of british history to debate you on that. All I will say is whether it will help or not I support there reasons for doing it. I dont care if it annoys people.

 

5 minutes ago, nudge said:

 

Sure, but do you think the government will immediately refurbish everyone's house because a bunch of people glued themselves to the motorway?... If not, then the only thing their protests achieve is disruption, additional emissions, and alienation of public support.

No they won't do it, but that doesn't make it worthless. Activists have a role to play within our political system even if they are in denial about what that is. There's a pendulum in which on one side is the activist bringing a topic to attention of the public and gaining support for it, on the other side is the activist making the topic seem that of cranks, hippies and lunatics. That is where the activist must be careful within this political system, what they all know is that in reality they need to completely overthrow the system to truly get what they want. 

The Labour Party have already put a figure on how much £ to dedicate to this issue as a result of this topic becoming prominent. Public support for action is growing. The incumbent governments policies so far have failed and in order to sustain their power they will have to address the topic to some extent.

Ultimately in the end the activist does not get what they want but they can and often do cause positive change. Long term disruption however risks that pendulum swinging to the hippy crank side. The topic of interest to the public will shift from insulation to how to stop the disruption. A government who can get them to stop will likely get approval rating rewards for it. 

My main fear, within this system, is that unlike the US and to some extent Australia and Canada right now, mainstream anti-climate positions are non existent and anti-climate is the crank position still, but activists moves risk feeding those cranks if they are not careful.

 

2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think you need to lead by example if I’m honest. If you believe in this so strongly, make sure you’re doing the most. That doesn’t mean only hammer the government, but make yourself personally responsible as well. 

I understand that however on climate it is impossible not to be a hypocrit in some aspect of life. You can make many changes and many decisions but there will always be something that someone finds to wave at you.

On housing insulation, at current market prices you're looking at maybe £10-35k per house. So on that subject we are simply not going to make the changes to this countries housing stock without the government's help. Policies so far on this matter have flopped.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think you need to lead by example if I’m honest. If you believe in this so strongly, make sure you’re doing the most. That doesn’t mean only hammer the government, but make yourself personally responsible as well. 

I think to be honest having a land rover is worse. I mean he could make a reasonable argument that he cant afford to insulate his house and that is part of his argument.  However when  you own a gas gussler it will be much harder to get support. However people will probably try to say he is only doing it to get his house insulated so it does create a problem. Look at how many people try to discredit greta even though it is fairly obvious she is genuine 

[Guest]

I think the thing the protesters need to remember his who they are trying to persuade. Those people that dont care about climate change arent going to change their mind because of the protests. However there are people that care that maybe dont do enough. If you can convince them or make them more aware then maybe they have done what they intended. I mean I have recently switched to the green party because the environment is the most important problem we face. Doesnt mean much on his own but the more people who support them the  more we can get green measures in place. Also just hearing about it makes me  more aware. Like they said if they can do that in a large enough scale they may say that is what they wanted to do.

[Waylander]

Climate change, suspect we have not yet heard the truth.

When the Incas cut down the trees (tropical rain forest) they got droughts and a 20% rise in ground temperatures. I believe in the last 70 years an area of tropical rain forest equal to all of the Americas from Tierra Del Fuego to Alaska has been cut down.

This has never been shown on a global warning map and tropical rain forest removes carbon dioxide much better than trees in Northern Europe.

Another factor is rockets and planes in the upper atmosphere destroying the ozone layer that protects us from radiation and more heat.

I'm not against BEVs or HFCs as suspect they will certainly improve air quality in cities.

Yet the cost of change in a nation of 65m would be huge and who will pay for it?

There is already talk that combustion car sales are being used to reduce the cost of BEVs, they are being sold at less than cost.........

I can only see change happening slowly though more will go electric for vehicles after seeing these fuel queues and with hydrogen refueling stations being set up think more will consider that too. A lot will be cash strapped and reluctant to change and already they are paying more via heavy VAT on fuel and then by weighted car tax.

 

[Tommy]

 

[LFCMike]

3 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

I fucking despise Johnson

[Stan]

He's just a bumbling twat of a man.

[Danny]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

I fucking despise Johnson

You can see the exact moment where he thinks he’s winning the argument and then realises he doesn’t understand the argument

[Guest]

I dont really understand. Why is it johnsons fault? 

[Honey Honey]

9 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I dont really understand. Why is it johnsons fault? 

Industries turn to government when they need help. They work closely with DEFRA. It would be DEFRA's responsibility to put to the Prime Minister any requirements or help they need from his powers which DEFRA can't handle. 

Prime Ministers typically wouldn't do an interview unless they are told the topic of conversation first. If Johnson knew that topic was coming up and still winged it like that it would be saying a lot about how he treats his position and the interviews.

[RandoEFC+]

I disagree with a lot of what Starmer's done, especially since Labour lost Hartlepool and he changed his entire team and brought Mandelson on board. However, like I was saying last week, what those of us who aren't Johnson fans need to do is remember just how bad he is. I don't like that he did an op-ed in The S*n over the weekend and there are plenty of socialist-Corbynite types calling him a Tory and saying he's lost Liverpool and stuff, a mixture of people I follow due to politics and those in Everton-type circles that occasionally comment on it. Personally, if whatever Starmer (or, hypothetically, Corbyn or Burnham or basically anyone to the left of the current government) does results in getting Boris Johnson and co out of Downing Street, then I'm sad to say that I'd forgive them not anything, but an awful lot more than I'd want to. On one hand, you're compromising on your principles by saying that but trying to play the game of principles when a man like him is the Prime Minister is folly. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

17 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

I've been covering food waste as part of business ethics. It's really raised my awareness to these sorts of things, and convinced me that everyone needs compost, to recycle more ect...

But this is criminal. 

[Honey Honey]

Yikes.

[Bluewolf]

2 minutes ago, The Premier Steve's said:

Yikes.

Things getting a bit heated as people take the law into their own hands but couldn't expect anything else really... I respect peoples right to protest but blocking roads and motorways disrupting transport and ambulances for example is not the right way to go about it.. We have experienced a lot of driver delays at our place because of this and in the grand scheme of things we are not in the life saving business so for us it has it's desired affect of disrupting services but I often feel that this sort of thing comes from sheer frustration and as always all the wrong people trying to get to work or emergency services are on the receiving end as normal.. They should gather outside of no10 and be a pain in the arse and cause disruption instead... 

[Honey Honey]

50 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

Things getting a bit heated as people take the law into their own hands but couldn't expect anything else really... I respect peoples right to protest but blocking roads and motorways disrupting transport and ambulances for example is not the right way to go about it.. We have experienced a lot of driver delays at our place because of this and in the grand scheme of things we are not in the life saving business so for us it has it's desired affect of disrupting services but I often feel that this sort of thing comes from sheer frustration and as always all the wrong people trying to get to work or emergency services are on the receiving end as normal.. They should gather outside of no10 and be a pain in the arse and cause disruption instead... 

They wouldn't get the coverage. They wouldn't be on morning tv. People protest in numbers that small and smaller at government buildings all the time. Many occasion have I taken a leaflet from someone dressed as a badger or walked past a bloke who stuck a load of plastic bottles to himself. Many have been arrested.

When an ambulance is trying to get through its time to stand up, get off the road. 

[Inverted]

I think the climate change activism in this country has a serious problem with well-off hippies alienating a large swathe of the population. But while it is valid to call them arseholes, it also seems like quite a pointless argument when many people are just already looking for an excuse to be dismissive about climate change. 

Look at Greta Thunberg for example, more than anyone she has probably put herself through an incredible amount of inconvenience in order to live according to her ideals  - but if someone within 10ft of her is spotted with a plastic bottle, a lot of people will just instantly dismiss her as a hypocrite. Such people never really cared about what she does or doesn't do personally. They're just not interested in the issue, and they're mad at her for making them think about it.

[Harry]

On 02/10/2021 at 20:43, nudge said:

 

Sure, but do you think the government will immediately refurbish everyone's house because a bunch of people glued themselves to the motorway?... If not, then the only thing their protests achieve is disruption, additional emissions, and alienation of public support.

Also it gives a sense of fulfillment in the protestors. 

[RandoEFC+]

Embarrassing that these people can become elected officials in this country, let alone ministers, and then when they get caught lying live on television have the gall to criticise the person who pointed it out, accuse them of making a political point and try to squirm out of it by trying to tell the British people watching it that they aren't interested in it. Absolutely no shame. But this is the play book that's been getting them by. It's just embarrassing that other countries can look at us and see that those are our elected officials.

[Stan]

27 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Embarrassing that these people can become elected officials in this country, let alone ministers, and then when they get caught lying live on television have the gall to criticise the person who pointed it out, accuse them of making a political point and try to squirm out of it by trying to tell the British people watching it that they aren't interested in it. Absolutely no shame. But this is the play book that's been getting them by. It's just embarrassing that other countries can look at us and see that those are our elected officials.

Makes me laugh that Tories can get millions and millions of pounds of donations towards their party by Russians, pretty much lie in bed with them and there's barely an uproar. But the moment Corbyn is alleged to have had links to it it's all plastered all over the media and they're on him like vultures. 

 

[Dave]

 

The Government us all to work towards returning to work five days a week. Im sure they'll dress it up as we will inadvertently be spending more to help little businesses but I'm not sure who this really benefits other than the extortionate rail service and there landlord associates who own the office space. It definitely doesn't help my employer having me in the office distracting people, it definitely doesn't help the mental health of people who will be spending more at a time when the cost of living is expecting to rise significantly.

Also the audacity of Oliver Dowden, a man who burried his head in the sand over any form of issue as the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport during lockdown to be the one to imply we have all sat on pelotons (good luck ever affording one of them under this government) doing nothing for 18 months isn't lost on me.

[Stan]

How are they actually this thick? 

 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

 

The Tory boys want us all to work towards returning to work five days a week. Im sure they'll dress it up as we will inadvertently be spending more to help little businesses but I'm not sure who this really benefits other than the extortionate rail service and there landlord chums who own the office space. It definitely doesn't help my employer having me in the office distracting people, it definitely doesn't help the mental health of people who will be spending more at a time when the cost of living is expecting to rise significantly.

Also the audacity of Oliver Dowden, a man who burried his head in the sand over any form of issue as the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport during lockdown to be the one to imply we have all sat on pelotons (good luck ever affording one of them under this government) doing fuck all for 18 months isn't lost on me.

Dowden is one of the worst. And the landlord donors thing is definitely a big deal. It was pretty much outed as the only reason they forced universities to go back to in-person lectures in September 2020 despite the fact that pre-vaccine it was very clear that this would lead to huge outbreaks and students isolating in halls getting their education remotely after all, paying for the accommodation when they could have been educated back at home and saved the money. They went ahead with it for the primary reason that they were under pressure from a lot of wealthy donors who own property and relied upon the country going back to work/school/university and filling the office space. This whole conversation about whether work from home is something that should be integrated partially or fully in some cases to your working week where appropriate is a massive threat to the Tory donors who own buildings in big cities and make very nice bang for their buck by renting it out as office space. Another thing that the Labour Party as the party of employees and therefore the majority of the country should be banging on about often and loudly.

[Waylander]

The govt's views is we have had the vaccines, the vaccines work so Dowden is telling the Civil Service to lead by example and get back to the offices.  

Now if the vaccines are not working so well (viruses do mutate) and people despite the vaccines are either not well or fear catching something again they will be reluctant to go back or reluctant at least to use public transport.

If people do not got back the London economy cannot recover quickly.

A lot in office work are being asked to come into the office just twice a week and also work from home the rest of the time.

Something is not making sense.

 

 

[Bluewolf]

Indie band Friendly Fires have hit out at Boris Johnson after he walked out to one of their songs for his speech at the Conservative party conference.

The Prime Minister made his way to the stage against the backdrop of their track Blue Cassette ahead of his keynote speech in Manchester.

However, the band have said they did not give their permission for him to use the song at the event and said they are taking steps to make sure it does not happen again.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Bluewolf

[Honey Honey]

 

Possible election next winter.