How shite is the prem these days?

[Devil-Dick Willie]

"40 points for safety" There are 4 teams on less than 30 points.
Teams used to win the league with 70 something or 80 something points. City will go over 90 to win the league (again). 
The divide between the top teams and the middle table and yo yo teams has never been higher, the league has never felt more plastic. What's the fucking point anymore? Everyone supports the same 5 teams, money, the FA, UEFA and FIFA have butchered the game with their tokenistic financial regulations and lack of support to clubs that aren't shoveling cash into their throats. 

Man City, EPL champions for the 9th time in 13 seasons. Bayern Munich, 11 time champions in 14 seasons. PSG 10 out of 12. Juventus won 9 in a row recently, though ironically Italy and Spain have been saved from outright monopoly by gross incompetence and corruption from the teams who stood to easily dominate. 

[Happy Blue]

It's the best it's ever been with title races going down to the last day most seasons. FFP is going to ruin it in the long run but right now it;s the best league in the world

[Stan]

It's not been the most competitive outside of the top 2/3 in recent seasons. 

The gap between Championship and Premier League is widening, I think. It's ultra-competitive in the Championship as almost always there's battles going down right til the final day of the season (this season was a bit of an anomaly, mind). This means a 'weaker' side can often find themselves promoted almost as if they're not ready to be because of the gulf between the two leagues.

The money in the game has corrupted it beyond the point of no return.

I've seen so many fans waver with their support for the game these days, let alone support for their own team. And that's a sad time for the game because it's not what we all know it to be. 

[Danny]

Prem has been like this for decades now. Wasn’t long ago we had the cemented top 4 and then everyone else, only reason that got broken was because of City’s oil money.

European football as a whole needs to be revamped and its been needed for a long time, the European Super League is an example of how bad football is now because the only teams who have made the final in the last 16/17 years have been teams invited into it.

[MUFC]

Being honest on 4 occasions it could have been different. Twice Liverpool took it to the last day and for 2 seasons on the bounce Arsenal have thrown it away.

[OrangeKhrush]

City have also pushed teams to be better, I know we dont have any chance of replicating what city have done due to the financial rules, but the ambition is to get to that level.   

This season had three teams with Spurs and villa keeping pace, sadly liverpool had a fanny wobble at the wrong time, it's part of the game.

I dont begrudge city winning, they are a good team, they still need to finish the job though and it is up to Arsenal to put pressure on them.

[LFCMike]

19 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Being honest on 4 occasions it could have been different. Twice Liverpool took it to the last day and for 2 seasons on the bounce Arsenal have thrown it away.

Have Arsenal thrown it away this season? They've won 15 of their last 17 games, one of the games they didn't win was a draw at Man City.

[MUFC]

5 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Have Arsenal thrown it away this season? They've won 15 of their last 17 games, one of the games they didn't win was a draw at Man City.

They've beaten you, us, City and Spurs this season. When it mattered near the end they lose at home to Villa who weren't in great form at the time. They shouldn't have lost that game in my opinion

PS - Fuck you Son you stupid prick.

[Spike]

It was a really weak promotion year.

[LFCMike]

8 minutes ago, MUFC said:

They've beaten you, us, City and Spurs this season. When it mattered near the end they lose at home to Villa who weren't in great form at the time. They shouldn't have lost that game in my opinion

PS - Fuck you Son you stupid prick.

I get that it's a game you would expect them to win, especially at home. It's normal to drop points now and again in a title race though, Man City have skewed that. 

The only season they've not won it since 17/18 was when Liverpool knew they had to go out and win every single game after finishing second on 97 points the season before. That's not normal.

I certainly don't see it as Arsenal throwing it away this season. 

[Happy Blue]

25 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Have Arsenal thrown it away this season? They've won 15 of their last 17 games, one of the games they didn't win was a draw at Man City.

Yes, they came to our place and played like Stoke City for a draw, small club mentality, they possibly could of beaten us with us being sub par for most this season 

[MUFC]

12 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I get that it's a game you would expect them to win, especially at home. It's normal to drop points now and again in a title race though, Man City have skewed that. 

The only season they've not won it since 17/18 was when Liverpool knew they had to go out and win every single game after finishing second on 97 points the season before. That's not normal.

I certainly don't see it as Arsenal throwing it away this season. 

I say if they lost at City you can accept that. But losing it at home to Villa for me is what's handed it over.

Each to their own I guess.

[LFCMike]

3 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

It's the best it's ever been with title races going down to the last day most seasons. FFP is going to ruin it in the long run but right now it;s the best league in the world

It's the third time in 7 seasons since City won their first under Guardiola. Off the top of my head the previous 3 before that didn't go to the last day either.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

1 hour ago, MUFC said:

Being honest on 4 occasions it could have been different. Twice Liverpool took it to the last day and for 2 seasons on the bounce Arsenal have thrown it away.

I don't think it going down to the last day is a saving grace. The best teams are still outrageously far ahead of the middle pack, and the gap is growing, because FFP slaps down any financial boosts that would close it.

[RandoEFC+]

Just because a title race goes down to the last weekend doesn't mean it's exciting. There are no ebbs and flows. Man City are usually about 5 points behind at Christmas time. Then they win 23 of their 25 games and draw the other two, while the team leading the league lose a couple and draw a couple and it's enough to see City come through. It's really fucking tedious actually because the "title race" consists of 2 or 3 teams winning 3-0 every weekend except the one that's not Man City drops points once every 4-6 weeks. That's not exciting. Most weekends, nothing happens. The only thing that's actually *happened* in the title race in the last two months was Liverpool drawing at Old Trafford and Arsenal losing to Villa.

You can have a close title race but it isn't good or exciting if both of the teams involved winning every weekend is all but a formality.

The financial regulations have created an even bigger gulf between the top teams and the mid-table fodder who used to be able to cause an upset to a title contender on any given day. You won't see any of that until that changes. Another sea of talented players (Olise, Branthwaite, Toney, etc) will be plucked from the helpless bottom half clubs again this summer to reinforce the benches of the rich clubs again, and then we'll complain again next season when Man City turn up and spank all of the clubs that sell these players next spring. The whole thing needs a massive rethink if we ever want it to change.

[MUFC]

1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I don't think it going down to the last day is a saving grace. The best teams are still outrageously far ahead of the middle pack, and the gap is growing, because FFP slaps down any financial boosts that would close it.

I think the occasion where City going 2 down on the final day was exciting for neutrals. Isn't there always a big gap between the top dogs and the rest in most sports.

[Happy Blue]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

It's the third time in 7 seasons since City won their first under Guardiola. Off the top of my head the previous 3 before that didn't go to the last day either.

That's what i mean, it's mint 

[Cicero]

Think Pep is the biggest issue. There's a phrase that it's difficult to motivate people who all they eat is caviar, that caviar is still good. There's no better manager than him in terms of sustainability. 

Think he's also revolutionised football for the better and for the worst. He should follow Klopp and fuck off. 

[Coma+]

It's shite.

[MUFC]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Just because a title race goes down to the last weekend doesn't mean it's exciting. There are no ebbs and flows. Man City are usually about 5 points behind at Christmas time. Then they win 23 of their 25 games and draw the other two, while the team leading the league lose a couple and draw a couple and it's enough to see City come through. It's really fucking tedious actually because the "title race" consists of 2 or 3 teams winning 3-0 every weekend except the one that's not Man City drops points once every 4-6 weeks. That's not exciting. Most weekends, nothing happens. The only thing that's actually *happened* in the title race in the last two months was Liverpool drawing at Old Trafford and Arsenal losing to Villa.

You can have a close title race but it isn't good or exciting if both of the teams involved winning every weekend is all but a formality.

The financial regulations have created an even bigger gulf between the top teams and the mid-table fodder who used to be able to cause an upset to a title contender on any given day. You won't see any of that until that changes. Another sea of talented players (Olise, Branthwaite, Toney, etc) will be plucked from the helpless bottom half clubs again this summer to reinforce the benches of the rich clubs again, and then we'll complain again next season when Man City turn up and spank all of the clubs that sell these players next spring. The whole thing needs a massive rethink if we ever want it to change.

City are way more dominant than Merc were in the Hybrid era.

[Dan+]

The points tally this season to win the league wasn't actually 'that' high. Man City have raised the bar to an almost depressingly unattainable level but then at the same time I think they had a bit of an off year, first half of the season especially and they've still ended up almost certainly winning it.

I don't think topping them was impossible this season despite the fact they have raised the bar. The others let them off the hook this time.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

The points tally this season to win the league wasn't actually 'that' high. Man City have raised the bar to an almost depressingly unattainable level but then at the same time I think they had a bit of an off year, first half of the season especially and they've still ended up almost certainly winning it.

I don't think topping them was impossible this season despite the fact they have raised the bar. The others let them off the hook this time.

Arsenal in December shot themselves in the foot, I think judging by the points tally they will likely win the league on, you can't blame them for being so good because they dropped enough points that they could be beaten. It's just that Arsenal dropped points too, except the bad thing for Arsenal is that they were just shit, whereas City just had injuries...wait until City are fully fit next season.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, Stan said:

It's not been the most competitive outside of the top 2/3 in recent seasons. 

The gap between Championship and Premier League is widening, I think. It's ultra-competitive in the Championship as almost always there's battles going down right til the final day of the season (this season was a bit of an anomaly, mind). This means a 'weaker' side can often find themselves promoted almost as if they're not ready to be because of the gulf between the two leagues.

The money in the game has corrupted it beyond the point of no return.

I've seen so many fans waver with their support for the game these days, let alone support for their own team. And that's a sad time for the game because it's not what we all know it to be. 

This

[Danny]

Honestly can't help but think people are living with a bit too much nostalgia. From a competition standpoint the Premier League was absolute dogshit through the 00's, it was strangled in the 90s and the feelings people have for almost not being able to escape Pep and City were the same for Fergie and United. The only difference really is that Fergie had to compete with a coach in Mourinho who redefined how clubs should defend and train in England and was backed to the hilt, Klopp came in and redefined how to press aggressively but has done it at a weaker club financially than Chelsea. But still, it was difficult to better Ferguson and really the only man who has completely outplayed him is now doing it for City.

Personally I grew numb of this a long time ago, I would say when Chelsea first won the Champions League, that was a real turning point that showed that it didn't really matter if you had a historical pedigree in the competition (Liverpool, United) or no pedigree in it (Forest when they won, Villa when they won, Arsenal when they reached a final), what mattered is that you could bankroll your way to success regardless. It's very rare that you could see a team win the competition based purely on great coaching, scouting and academy intake.

It's very telling that the only time in the league where a complete surprise occurred in my lifetime in Leicester winning it; Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City all sacked their managers that season. Not to discredit Leicester, but the facts are that the reason they had such a good run at the title whilst competing with Spurs of all teams was due to complete and utter mismanagement of 4 of the traditional top 6 in that season and the season before. We hadn't seen mismanagement like that from those powerfully rich clubs as a whole in decades before and we haven't seen it since.

I've probably waffled on about this before, but what I would love is a global system in which all clubs regardless of where you are have to compete within the same type of wage/transfer restrictions. Then we would get to see a true Club World Cup, imagine if Brazilian clubs or Argentinian clubs could keep their best players, imagine how many opportunities there would be for young players knowing that the academy systems would be more important than ever as you have to supplement your big spends with great academy finds as everyone operates under similar transfer constraints. I realise it would lead to less quality in the league as a whole in England or Spain, and there would also still end up with concentrated levels of talent in certain areas, but at least it would be down to how well you operate as a club rather than how much money you can make from tv money, prize money, global sales or just a randomly rich benefactor. A yearly, proper, real McCoy Club World Cup would be phenomenal. Fuck the Champions League, Europa, Conference, just create a global version for each one, short group stage/knock out style.

[RandoEFC+]

While we're all right to bemoan the boringness of it, what's actually a bigger issue here is that the Premier League will have crowned City champions twice since levelling 115 charges at them for breaking the rules and City are yet to set foot in a courtroom to defend themselves. In the meantime, two other clubs have been fast-tracked (one of those twice) and Leicester have been pretty much told they'll have a points deduction next season when they come up.

It really shows who's governing things here. If the Premier League had an ounce of integrity they'd stop making excuses about how complicated City's case is because they broke 114 more rules than anyone else and get on with it. Start with charge 1 next week, if City refuse to turn up to the hearing then they get sanctioned. The case isn't going to get any less complicated the longer they wait. Get the fuck on with it. And if it's that complicated to do it as one case then offer to have 115 different hearings for them and see how they like the threat of having to fight each one in the courts with a constant drip feed of points deductions over several seasons ruining their chances in the league.