Kowabunga Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Is Boris going to compromise with ERG in terms of conditions of lockdown in a trade-off with the stance with negotiations with EU or he does not need that given favourable parliamentary arithmetic? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Bluewolf said: That's the one... we are currently Hot, Highly combustible, proceed with caution... I fucking miss Nando’s so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 About time, lock him up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 The latest polling is suggesting that the outcry against and support for the latest lockdown changes are drawn on former political grounds. The country is split down the middle. I've certainly been hearing offline a few people who don't think there's anything wrong with what was said or the slogan. Perhaps the split is between those who think you need rules for everything and those who prefer to make their own judgments and risk assessments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Businesses are just not prepared or have the facilities to have this influx of workers coming back into their places of work while trying to implement the Government approved guidelines on Social distancing... it's not a workable scenario and it's been poorly thought out and a bit rushed. An example being our place, We had one of our bosses come into the canteen the other day and saw 2 people sitting together for lunch, he approached them and quizzed them on social distancing rules but turns out they live together. He was still not happy with this response and asked them to move apart even though downstairs they accept they can stand together while operating a line along with all the other staff... The other issue is space, In order to accommodate social distancing measures they have had to open up other areas of the building like the conference/meeting rooms and office areas so that the staff can keep a safe distance apart but by doing this they have now found that this creates another problem with trying to get office staff back in to the building?? They have spaced out desks so that there is a reasonable distance between so that they can bring back a certain amount of staff but it can't be achieved because it didn't take into account the amount of staff being allowed access during breaks.. All of this distancing goes right out the window though when it comes to operating our Production/Goods-in and Despatch downstairs where everyone is in close proximity to one another for about 10 hours a day... It's just not workable and safe and I don't know how they would be expected to meet those requirements without breaking some of the rules.. It's a daunting task facing a great many businesses I would have thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted May 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted May 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, Harvsky said: The latest polling is suggesting that the outcry against and support for the latest lockdown changes are drawn on former political grounds. The country is split down the middle. I've certainly been hearing offline a few people who don't think there's anything wrong with what was said or the slogan. Perhaps the split is between those who think you need rules for everything and those who prefer to make their own judgments and risk assessments. Not sure it's a 'rules for everything' kind of stance but since the lockdown or even before, we've pretty much been guided/directed/told what to do by scientists or those in charge - the 'stay at home' message was clear and precise. Now that there's a bit of responsibility given back to the public after 7 straight weeks of one rule, it's a bit of a grey area now it's 'stay alert by staying alert and being at home as much as possible'. But then workplaces are re-opening, golf courses/parks/leisure facilities are slowly opening back up. It's all a bit ambigious. What's the point in opening those places back up (where you can spend unlimited time now) but the message still seems to be 'stay at home as much as possible'. It's one message from one person and another message from a different person ? Trusting the public to use their common sense after 7 weeks of being stuck inside (for the most part) is risky. And who's to say someone's common sense is the same as somoene else?! There's bound to be different levels of someone thinking they're doing the right thing against someone who's not. That's just society. And then it becomes harder to police (literally) because they're at a loss on how/who to fine given the new guidelines. The only clear thing is the 2m apart when sunbathing (!) in a park for example, but how practical is that for the people that choose to do it? For me, it just smacks of government putting responsibility back to the public so that when it all inevitably goes tits up and we see a huge spike in cases 2-3 weeks from now, Boris can say the public didn't abide by guidelines and therefore the conditions on the timeline announced in last couple of days will have to be changed. It's all well and good asking the public to take responsibility but where is the government taking responsibility for all the shortcomings they've made? The PM suggesting 'take it on the chin, let the virus pass through', the lack of PPE in certain areas, preferring to give contracts of ventilators to manufacturers of things totally different just because there's a link to someone works in government, the mixed messages from government throughout (we even had Raab say on Monday morning something totally different to that announced by Boris the night before). There's no culpability any more. I know during the middle of the crisis it probably isn't the right time to analyse etc but I hope that inquiry afterwards on how it was all managed from start to finish is a strong and effective one. Everyone can see how many mistakes have been made - the people in charge need to take some responsibility and ownership of it all. It isn't just the public who show poor judgement. Ranted on a bit, sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Stan said: For me, it just smacks of government putting responsibility back to the public so that when it all inevitably goes tits up and we see a huge spike in cases 2-3 weeks from now, Boris can say the public didn't abide by guidelines and therefore the conditions on the timeline announced in last couple of days will have to be changed. I do think there is a big element of this going on... also passing on the responsibility for getting it right to the employers as well, Let people back but keep them safe or risk being shut down seems to be the message.. They have even set up squeeler hotlines so you can dob your firm in if you feel they are not following guidelines.. As far as the public is concerned you have those that don't seem to care all that much and because they might not have got the virus seem to think it's all a big fuss over nothing and want to go out, party and otherwise not have their lives ruined by restrictions and then those that are taking a more sensible cautious approach knowing that to be safer you have to make adjustments to our lifestyle.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Imagine being Bill Gates right now. You spend 30 years of your life and $50 billion of your own dollars supporting humanitarian causes. You directly save hundreds of thousands of lives in South East Asia by providing anti malaria netting to half of a continent, you drop infant mortality rates throughout the entire developing world by funding vaccine programs including vaccinating 40,000,000 children for polio, and, amongst a plethora of philanthropic endeavors, you fund free educational platforms like Khan Academy so people can have free access to high quality education. Then after donating half of your wealth to charity and pledging 90% of the remainder to charity in your will.. Arguably doing more to better life on earth for humanity than any other human being to ever live. You then hop on the internet only to find a million scientifically illiterate fucking imbeciles that are using the very computers you pretty much invented in the first place to call you a child murdering arch villian antichrist because they watched a YouTube video made by some other yokel with the comprehension of a fucking potato. And the Reply Event 201 = Gates ID2020 = Gates Coronavirus patent = Gates Covid vaccine = Gates WHO/NIAID/CDC/UN funding = Gates Fauci/Birx/Tedros funding = Gates New Economy based on Human Activity (060606) = Gates Hypothesize a simulated global outbreak, required steps, various phases, overall timeline and expected outcomes (Rockefeller - Lock Step, 2010). -Create a very contagious but super low mortality rate virus to fit the needed plan (SARS/HIV hybrid research strain created at Fort Detrick class 4 lab from 2008-2013 as part of a research project to find out why coronavirus's spread like wildfire in bats but have an extremely hard time infecting humans (hence the 4 HIV inserts, aka the missing key to infect the human ACE-2 receptor) -Create a weaponized version of the virus with a much higher mortality rate as a "BACKUP plan" ready to be released in phase 3 BUT ONLY IF NEEDED (SARS/HIV/MERS weaponized tribrid strain created at Fort Detrick class 4 lab in 2015) -Transport the research strain to a different class 4 lab (National Microbiology Lab in Winnipeg Canada) and have it stolen and smuggled out by China (Shi Zhengli) on purpose and taken to China's only class 4 lab (Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan China) for added plausible deniability and to help cement the wanted BACKUP public script as something to fall back on IF needed (primary script being its natural, backup script being that China created it and released it by accident) -Fund all the talking heads (Fauci/Birx/Tedros...) and agencies (WHO/NIAID/CDC/UN...) that would be involved with pandemic response prior to the planned release of the research strain to control the wanted script throughout the operation. -Create and fund the vaccination development and roll-out plan so its capable of being rolled out on a global scale (Gates - Decade of Vaccines: Global Vaccine Action Plan, 2010-2020) -Create and fund the vaccination verification/certification protocols (Digital ID) to enforce/confirm the vaccination program after the mandatory roll-out is enacted (Gates - ID2020) -Simulate the Lock Step hypothesis just prior to the planned research strain release using a real-world exercise as a final wargame to determine expected response/timelines/outcomes (Gates - Event 201, Oct 2019) -Release the research strain at the Wuhan Institute of Virology itself and then blame it's released on a natural scapegoat as the wanted primary script (the Wuhan wet market, Nov 2019) -Downplay the human-to-human transmission for as long as possible to allow the research strain to spread on a global scale before any country can lockdown/respond to avoid initial infection -Once a country has seed infection in place, lockdown incoming/outgoing travel but keep the transmission within the country spreading for as long as possible -Once enough people in a country/region are infected, enact forced quarantines/isolation for that area and expand the lockdown regions slowly over time. -Over-hype the mortality rate by tying the research strain to deaths that have little to nothing to do with the actual virus to keep the fear and compliance at a maximum (if anyone dies for ANY reason and is found they have COVID consider it a COVID death & if anyone is thought to of MAYBE had symptoms of COVID to assume they have COVID and consider it a COVID death). -Keep the public quarantined for as long as possible to destroy the regions economy, create civil unrest, breakdown the supply chain, and cause the start of mass food shortages, as well as cause peoples immune system to weaken due to lack of interaction with other people/bacteria (the outside world... aka the things that keeps our immune system alert and active). -Downplay and attack any potential "treatments" and continue to echo that only a "cure" is viable to fight this virus (aka a vaccine) -Continue to drag out the quarantine over and over and over again (in 2 week intervals) causing more and more people to eventually stand up and protest/defy them. -Eventually end the phase 1 quarantine once they get enough public push-back (~June 2020), and publicly state that they still think it's "too early" to end the isolation but are going to do it anyways. -Once the public go "back to normal" wait a few weeks and then continue to over-hype the research strain mortality rate (~Aug-Sept 2020), and combine it with the increase in deaths due to people dying from standard illnesses at a higher rate then normal due to having highly weakened immune systems from months of being in isolation, to help further "pad" the mortality rate and hype the upcoming phase 2 lockdown. -Eventually enact phase 2 quarantines (~Oct-Nov 2020) on a even more extreme level and blame the protesters (mostly people who don't trust their government already) for the cause of the "larger" 2nd wave (we told you so, it was too early, this is all your fault cause you needed a hair cut, your freedoms have consequences...). -Enforce the phase 2 quarantines at a much more extreme level, increasing the penalty for defiance (replace fines with jail time), deem ALL travel as non-essential, increase checkpoints (including military assistance), increase tracking/tracing of the population (mandatory apps), take over control of food/gas (large scale shortages) so that people can only get access to essential products/services if they are FIRST given permission. -Keep the phase 2 lockdown in place for a much longer period of time then the phase 1 lockdown, continuing to destroy the global economy, further degrade the supply chain, and further amplify the food shortages, and alike. -Quell any public outrage using extreme actions/force and make anyone who defy's them appear as public enemy #1 to those who are willing to submit. -After a rather long phase 2 lockdown (6+ months), roll-out the vaccination program + vaccine certification and make it mandatory for everyone (giving priority access to those that submitted from the start), and have those that are for it attack those that are against it saying they are a threat and the cause of all the problems (we can't go back to normal until EVERYONE takes the vaccine... people defying them are hurting our way of life and therefore are the enemy). -If the majority of people go along with the agenda then let those people enter the new system (new normal) while limiting the minority that defy the agenda's ability to work/travel/live. -If the majority of people go against the agenda then release the weaponized SARS/HIV/MERS tribrid strain as phase 3, a virus with a 30%+ mortality rate as a final scare to push the minority to quickly become the majority and give a final "we told you so" to those that didn't listen. -Enact the new economy model (Microsoft patent 060606 - Cryptocurrency System Using Body Activity Data) which is based on human behavior and willingness to submit (tweaked version of Black Mirror's "Fifteen Million Merits") using food/water/shelter and other essentials as a weapon of enforcement of the new economic system. Basically do what we want and get rewarded (gain credits/score and gain more access to things you need to survive) or go against what we want and get penalized (lose credits/score and lose access to things you need to survive). ...Welcome to the New World Order.. And I would like to add that if anyone thinks that this isn't true then check out parts of China, they already have the cryptocurrency system in place in certain areas.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 On 12/05/2020 at 17:12, Azeem said: Lol Elon Musk What's he done now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted May 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted May 13, 2020 Oh dear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted May 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted May 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, Harry said: What's he done now? Not sure if it's same thing related but he apparently opened up one of his factories in Alameda (?), which is not allowed in that state, and said if police want to turn up and arrest anyone, don't arrest the workers but him instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Harry said: What's he done now? 10 hours ago, Azeem said: About time, lock him up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted May 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted May 13, 2020 Austria and Germany have agreed to open their borders in two steps: some restrictions will be lifted on Friday before a full reopening on 15 June Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia will open their borders to each other from Friday - creating a so-called Baltic bubble Beaches on France's north-west coast will start reopening on Wednesday but gatherings of more than eight people are banned Belgium's only naturist beach at Bredene won't open at all this year Police in Paris had to evacuate the steps of the Sacré-Cœur on Tuesday night because too many people had gathered Sweden’s government has promised to fund training for 10,000 healthcare assistants and care home nurses, after criticism of how it handled the spread of coronavirus among the elderly Sorry @DeadLinesman your annual trip to Bredene won't go ahead. Keep your bits in mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Stan said: Not sure it's a 'rules for everything' kind of stance but since the lockdown or even before, we've pretty much been guided/directed/told what to do by scientists or those in charge - the 'stay at home' message was clear and precise. Now that there's a bit of responsibility given back to the public after 7 straight weeks of one rule, it's a bit of a grey area now it's 'stay alert by staying alert and being at home as much as possible'. But then workplaces are re-opening, golf courses/parks/leisure facilities are slowly opening back up. It's all a bit ambigious. What's the point in opening those places back up (where you can spend unlimited time now) but the message still seems to be 'stay at home as much as possible'. It's one message from one person and another message from a different person ? Trusting the public to use their common sense after 7 weeks of being stuck inside (for the most part) is risky. And who's to say someone's common sense is the same as somoene else?! There's bound to be different levels of someone thinking they're doing the right thing against someone who's not. That's just society. And then it becomes harder to police (literally) because they're at a loss on how/who to fine given the new guidelines. The only clear thing is the 2m apart when sunbathing (!) in a park for example, but how practical is that for the people that choose to do it? For me, it just smacks of government putting responsibility back to the public so that when it all inevitably goes tits up and we see a huge spike in cases 2-3 weeks from now, Boris can say the public didn't abide by guidelines and therefore the conditions on the timeline announced in last couple of days will have to be changed. It's all well and good asking the public to take responsibility but where is the government taking responsibility for all the shortcomings they've made? The PM suggesting 'take it on the chin, let the virus pass through', the lack of PPE in certain areas, preferring to give contracts of ventilators to manufacturers of things totally different just because there's a link to someone works in government, the mixed messages from government throughout (we even had Raab say on Monday morning something totally different to that announced by Boris the night before). There's no culpability any more. I know during the middle of the crisis it probably isn't the right time to analyse etc but I hope that inquiry afterwards on how it was all managed from start to finish is a strong and effective one. Everyone can see how many mistakes have been made - the people in charge need to take some responsibility and ownership of it all. It isn't just the public who show poor judgement. Ranted on a bit, sorry We don't have anyone here to argue otherwise. This website has low diversity of thought. But what I'm hearing from some and seeing in the data is that a lot of people don't think it is ambiguous at all. One thing I've heard is a blame on the media for confusing people a d whipping up a frenzy, saying if you go on the actual government website it's clear what the rules are. The data does suggest some possible degree of reaction based on a sprectrun of nanny state to libertarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted May 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted May 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Harvsky said: We don't have anyone here to argue otherwise. This website has low diversity of thought. But what I'm hearing from some and seeing in the data is that a lot of people don't think it is ambiguous at all. One thing I've heard is a blame on the media for confusing people a d whipping up a frenzy, saying if you go on the actual government website it's clear what the rules are. There's culpability everywhere. You have MPs and ministers themselves giving different messages and putting their own interpretations on the rules. All saying something different. Can't be that clear a message then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Harvsky said: The latest polling is suggesting that the outcry against and support for the latest lockdown changes are drawn on former political grounds. The country is split down the middle. I've certainly been hearing offline a few people who don't think there's anything wrong with what was said or the slogan. Perhaps the split is between those who think you need rules for everything and those who prefer to make their own judgments and risk assessments. I think it’s more people who just like to see shows of strength, a new slogan for a new lockdown, Boris getting animated in his speeches. Donald Trump lite. There’s a large generation of people in the country who have that Empire mindset, Britain shall never be slaves, stiff upper lip, stick up a flag, start shouting and have their bellies tickled by being told how great they are. Great Britain...the Great British public....it’s an entire generation who’s worth is built on a perception that they are part of the best country in earth vs a generation of people growing up who are globalised, grew up talking to friends all around the world on the internet, less barriers in the way, identity not built as much on flags and barriers but connection to people. Maybe the split there is naturally Labour/Conservatives but it was definitely seen in the Remain/Leave camps imo Edited May 13, 2020 by Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Speaking about money ain't something you usually share with others but to understand such a situation, it's the only way here. £3,200 is roughly how much I've lost out on(but would have been 20% more if working obviously), although I have received £400 from the job centre, so that's like £2,800 that I should be owed by rights. My mate, on the other hand, doing the same job, but as full time rather than as a sub contractor has been paid throughout this. How is that fair? There will even be people out there who have lived in this country for 5 minutes and will have been getting 80% a week. Then there is all the money out of my own pocket that has been spent, which is fuck knows how much. How many others will be in this situation? We will all be the ones paying for this shit when tax goes up to 30% after this. I could understand, but everything has been undone so the lockdown was all pointless now anyway, people are out in numbers doing what they want. Not to mention more people will now be at risk of dying from the virus as their immune systems are significantly lower, they aren't having no human contact and are lacking vitamin D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Harry said: Basically do what we want and get rewarded (gain credits/score and gain more access to things you need to survive) or go against what we want and get penalized (lose credits/score and lose access to things you need to survive). He’s basically just described going to work. The fucking tit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: He’s basically just described going to work. The fucking tit I find those crazy spiels intriguing. The mindset of the conspiracy theorist, looking for neat ways to connect every dot, but using such flawed logic. Some conspiracies are actually plausible, or at least cloaked in supporting information to the point of appearing reasonable. But they are still held together by fundamental flaws such as the overall plot of the plotters being literally the most overly elaborate and obscure way of achieving their aims. And the fact the inferred schemes would imply such huge networks of people who would need to be in on it. A guy I used to work with, highly experienced senior structural engineer, is an avid believer in a 9/11 conspiracy, and promotes his cause, "architects and engineers for 9/11 truth", where a group of professionals in the field of structural engineering or architecture are completely convinced, from detailed study of the structures and the footage of the towers coming down, that the planes on their own would not have been able to cause the towers, and that additional explosives would have been required to produce such a precision drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Harvsky said: The latest polling is suggesting that the outcry against and support for the latest lockdown changes are drawn on former political grounds. The country is split down the middle. I've certainly been hearing offline a few people who don't think there's anything wrong with what was said or the slogan. Perhaps the split is between those who think you need rules for everything and those who prefer to make their own judgments and risk assessments. That's why I J-walk frequently when in the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted May 13, 2020 Administrator Share Posted May 13, 2020 27 minutes ago, Carnivore Chris said: There will even be people out there who have lived in this country for 5 minutes and will have been getting 80% a week. What's this bit mean? If they've lived in this country for a short time, yet working full-time and eligible for their 80% a week, why is that a slant on them? There's bound to be thousands in a similar situation as you that have sadly lost out. Agree about the tax bit. That'll be on us for years. But anyone expecting any different with all of this furloughing/impending recession is naive and more fool them to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: He’s basically just described going to work. The fucking tit Some of it makes sense when you take away all the shit about Gates, the New world order, etc. I believe many governments will use this virus as an excuse to further control and monitor the population in the future. The part about immune systems being lower is also something I've thought about for weeks. People who wouldn't have been as affected by catching it 9 weeks ago could now be at higher risk of becoming seriously ill due to the lack of vitamin D and lack of social interaction which lowers your immune system. But the new world order shit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted May 13, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted May 13, 2020 The fact that I cant be bothered reading all these long posts says all you need about how tired I'm getting of the arguments. The one thing I will say is that the problem with leaving too much of it down to interpretation and common sense is that in a country of millions of people it only takes a small minority who dont have any common sense to cause a significant problem for the vast majority that are perfectly capable of making their own minds up sensibly. We've seen plenty of the former over the last few weeks. It's also nice to see the primary school teachers getting victimised by the media and various gammons for not returning to work without asking questions given very little guidance by the government and mixed evidence on whether children can carry and pass on the virus with or without showing symptoms. Getting kids back to school is important but the same people crying that teachers are just enjoying a long holiday when we've actually had to completely relearn our jobs and continued to provide as many students as possible with as much of an education as possible are the same ones who in reality are just annoyed that they've had to actually look after their kids when they think it isn't their job. The vast majority that have gone through the very real struggle of having to home school their kids while working their own jobs from home are the most understanding of the need for return to school being carefully managed when they're the ones that are having the hardest time for it. This simultaneously makes no sense on the face of it yet doesn't surprise me in the slightest. The best argument I heard this morning was "maybe nurses should refuse to treat teachers' families if teachers refuse to go back to work" because the education of 5 year olds is apparently comparable to life and death hospital treatment. Really pissed me off some of the coverage this morning, but at least it's nice to see things returning to normal in one sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 News organisations blaming commuters for taking public transport “even though” Boris said to avoid it...really chips away at that hope for accountability tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, Stan said: What's this bit mean? If they've lived in this country for a short time, yet working full-time and eligible for their 80% a week, why is that a slant on them? There's bound to be thousands in a similar situation as you that have sadly lost out. Agree about the tax bit. That'll be on us for years. But anyone expecting any different with all of this furloughing/impending recession is naive and more fool them to be honest. It's not a slant on them, it's a slant on a country that makes no sense. It's not even difficult to work out how much 80% would be, it's all on record. But "not eligible". That's ridiculous. They knew what they were doing so that they only had to pay a select group, I.e ones who had been subcontracted/self employed for less than 24 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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