Game Of Thrones

[RandoEFC+]

Just watched Episode 4.

Much, much better episode. Game of Thrones getting back to its roots with politics, relationships and character development coming back to the fore over 'moments' and contrived dramatic plot points.

The best part of the episode is that with all these different agendas going on, you can see where opposing views are coming from and you sympathise with all parties.

Daenerys is a polarising character but I do think she would make a good queen after the war is over. People act like she's being unreasonable when she loses her temper but she's gone through so much shit. Logically they should just starve out Kings Landing like they were planning but this episode's ambush and killing of Rhaegel and Missandei just show that with an enemy like Cersei (and Euron) who is so unpredictable, maybe it's best to just wipe them from the face of the planet instead of trying to wait her out. Trying to beat Cersei in an honourable manner is like bringing a knife to a gun fight, but if there's anything that can prove to everyone that Daenerys is the best ruler, beating Cersei in a fair manner that doesn't sacrifice thousands of civilians is probably the one thing that would do that. Doesn't look like that's the way we'll go next week though.

Cersei will lose, I don't know whether she'll get murdered by Arya, or whether it will be the long theorised murder at the hands of Jaime. Like it was supposed to be Jon to kill the Night King and they gave it to Arya, perhaps they'll pull a switcheroo and Jon will take Cersei, Arya's big kill? I personally hope that we see Jaime's ultimate redemption, where Cersei is about to pull something crazy like spitefully trying to destroy the city with wildfire, just like the Mad King, when it becomes clear that Daenerys has won, and Jaime killing her like he did the Mad King, to stop it from happening again. I feel like the humanising moment where Cersei reacts emotionally to Tyrion talking about her baby means that she still has some weakness there which will lead her to give Jaime a chance when he arrives, if only to hear him out.

I feel sorry for Jon. Even though it turns out he's not one of the Last of the Starks, he's the only one still following in his father's example. Sansa swears to keep his secret and tells Tyrion. Arya claims to be loyal to her family but also doesn't plan to return home after she goes to Kings Landing. Bran isn't a proper person anymore. Only Jon sticks to his promise to fight for Daenerys once the war is over, and you have to say, Sansa is the main one not sticking by him. I wish Jon was always a bastard so that when the Long Night ended he could go back to the 'real North' with Tormund and Ghost. How this all plays out now is something like Jon and Davos arriving with the foot soldiers during/after the battle for Kings Landing and sees the city aflame and his face says that "that's the moment he realises that Daenerys can't be Queen and knows that he must press his claim to rule the Seven Kingdoms".

Also on Jon, people have made the point about people not accepting Daenerys as their queen because she's never lived in Westeros but are people really just going to go "oh fair enough" with Jon. Why did you leave the Nights Watch? Oh you got murdered so you were released from your vows and then you were brought back to life? Cool. And why are you suddenly the heir to the throne and not Ned Starks bastard? Oh your brother saw Rhaegar and Lyanna in a flashback? Totally legit.

Back to Sansa, I understand her mistrusting nature and her loyalty to her family and the North above all else. However, she's being stupid. She has Jon and Tyrion both vouching for Daenerys, men she at least sort of trusts, she's seen that Daenerys would come North and fight for Winterfell at great personal cost. Even Arya who is on the same page as her admits that they needed Daenerys. If Sansa fancies herself a true Stark she should be willing to fight alongside Daenerys and build a strong seven kingdoms. She was right about resting up though, Daenerys was pretty stupid to insist on leaving immediately but I guess she felt insecure about leaving things with her position under threat. It's a shame because you feel like a team of Dany, Jon, Sansa and Tyrion would sort the kingdom right out if one or two of them could just make a compromise or two.

Jaime and Brienne, about time they got together, but I'm disappointed that his leaving for Kings Landing is painted as his deep set loyalty to Cersei. A real step back for him and I'd hoped that he was going to say he was going because he's one of the only sensible people left who might have some away over her.

Gendry to become the Lord of Storm's End. That's cool. It was also cool to hear there's a new Prince of Dorne who has sworn loyalty to Daenerys, I wonder who this is, whether we'll meet them, whether it will matter this late in the game, probably not. I look forward to Tyrion explaining to Daenerys that he promised one of the greatest castles in the country to Bronn to save his and Jaime's backsides without consulting her too.

- RIP Rhaegel (and ouch to Jon losing his dragon and wolf in one episode).

- RIP Brienne ever opening herself up to anyone again.

- RIP Missandei.

[CaaC (John)+]

Just saw this in MSN news clip. did anybody notice it? I don't watch GoT so I will pass.  

 

Sunday night's "Game of Thrones" episode featured a surprising detail. Shortly after the episode aired, tweets started going viral showing a coffee cup seemingly left on a table during a feast scene by mistake.

About 17 minutes into season eight, episode four, "The Last of the Starks," a to-go coffee cup appears on the table in front of Daenerys Targaryen.

 

 

[Lucas]

Ok, my thoughts.

 

It felt like this episode was very much #TeamJon for the throne and made Dany look like she was fighting a losing battle. You could see the despair in her body language.

She lost Jorah, her main protector, last week, she's lost another Dragon and her right hand woman in Missandei, and with Jon's secret starting to spread out, you can see conspiring against her with Varys heavily involved. Surely only a matter of time before Tyrion goes against her. They have hinted at that in the past when they have had their differences of opinuon, not to mention Tyrion's close relationship with Sansa.

I think Dany could feel the game is up and was trying to be clever in getting Jon onside to stop him revealing the truth to the Stark's. Obviously she doesn't know Sansa and Arya know, but now Jon has, and once she finds out, I think she'll turn on him, after Cersei is dealt with of course.

You kind of feel sorry for Dany, she's been built up as a saviour despite glimpses of how savage she can be, but without doubt she's losing it emotionally. Particularly when Euron's fleet killed Rhaegal and she charged at them with Drogon. She was heading for suicide and came to her senses at the last minute. Losing Missandei is like the last straw for her.

Dany aside, it would have been nice to see how Sansa and Arya first reacted to being told Jon's news. I was disappointed that we didn't get to see Bran telling them both and the emotional impact that had

Edited May 6, 2019 by Lucas

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

Ok, my thoughts.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It felt like this episode was very much #TeamJon for the throne and made Dany look like she was fighting a losing battle. You could see the despair in her body language.

She lost Jorah, her main protector, last week, she's lost another Dragon and her right hand woman in Missandei, and with Jon's secret starting to spread out, you can see conspiring against her with Varys heavily involved. Surely only a matter of time before Tyrion goes against her. They have hinted at that in the past when they have had their differences of opinuon, not to mention Tyrion's close relationship with Sansa.

I think Dany could feel the game is up and was trying to be clever in getting Jon onside to stop him revealing the truth to the Stark's. Obviously she doesn't know Sansa and Arya know, but now Jon has, and once she finds out, I think she'll turn on him, after Cersei is dealt with of course.

You kind of feel sorry for Dany, she's been built up as a saviour despite glimpses of how savage she can be, but without doubt she's losing it emotionally. Particularly when Euron's fleet killed Rhaegal and she charged at them with Drogon. She was heading for suicide and came to her senses at the last minute. Losing Missandei is like the last straw for her.

Dany aside, it would have been nice to see how Sansa and Arya first reacted to being told Jon's news. I was disappointed that we didn't get to see Bran telling them both and the emotional impact that had

Sorry mate - had to fix your post since I think you misspelled Spoiler and therefore was in fact spoiling the episode. 

[Lucas]

I'm glad you did. I posted and it didn't work whatever I did. Literally cut the whole lot out and was about to try again and you'd sorted it. Good man.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Lucas

[Eco]

My thoughts on last night's episode. 

Again, not impressed. This season has not been great, and it's clear that the writers are just trying to finish up the series in time. 

The whole Jamie and Brianne love scene was awkward AF and I did NOT feel like that was needed at all. 
The sister's reaction to being told about John was a waste. 
The last scene where the beheading takes place is dumb. If you are Cerci, and are ruthless, then you would have killed Tyrion as he approached, an then shot you massive arrows at Dani, her last dragon, and the tiny little army. Nothing about Cerci has shown she plays fair so why start now?!?

Frustrating how this season is the last and really is falling short. WAY short. 

[Harry]

I have absolutely no idea how this show will end. Presumably Cersei loses but absolutely I couldn't even guess who is in power in each major Castle by the end.

 

[Batard]

I actually hope they do what Terry Nation did with the series Blake 7. Most of you are too young to remember Blake 7, it was an iconic but cheaply made BBC sci-fi series. What distinguished it from other serials was that at in the finale to entire run, all the main characters are slain. It would have cheapened the story to do anything otherwise, which feels similar here.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I didn’t like that episode at all, thought it felt rushed.

[Machado]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I didn’t like that episode at all, thought it felt rushed.

That's what happens when you try to fit 20 episodes worth of content in only 6.

[Eco]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I didn’t like that episode at all, thought it felt rushed.

Well - outside of the first episode, they have been rushed. That White King scene still was the lamest shit in TV. 

[Viva la FCB+]

1 hour ago, Eco said:

My thoughts on last night's episode. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Again, not impressed. This season has not been great, and it's clear that the writers are just trying to finish up the series in time. 

The whole Jamie and Brianne love scene was awkward AF and I did NOT feel like that was needed at all. 
The sister's reaction to being told about John was a waste. 
The last scene where the beheading takes place is dumb. If you are Cerci, and are ruthless, then you would have killed Tyrion as he approached, an then shot you massive arrows at Dani, her last dragon, and the tiny little army. Nothing about Cerci has shown she plays fair so why start now?!?

Frustrating how this season is the last and really is falling short. WAY short. 

 

 

That bit about Tyrion is all I could think about when he was approaching too. Not only has she hated him for almost his entire life, she even sent Bron after him to kill him after the war with the walkers, now all of a sudden she has some honour? I dont know about that one.

 

The episode was kinda all over the place, covering too much ground in to short a time. The bit with Varys was good and does show the divide is beginning to happen and as most of Danys supporters are seemingly falling left right and centre, her support is dwindling and so are her dragons and her sanity possibly. Enter John the true heir and the man of the people. Regardless of the writing having gone downhill since the books stopped Im still invested and eagerly awaiting the final two episodes to see how this plays out, if I've learned anything expect the unexpected/

[Eco]

19 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

 

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That bit about Tyrion is all I could think about when he was approaching too. Not only has she hated him for almost his entire life, she even sent Bron after him to kill him after the war with the walkers, now all of a sudden she has some honour? I dont know about that one.

 

The episode was kinda all over the place, covering too much ground in to short a time. The bit with Varys was good and does show the divide is beginning to happen and as most of Danys supporters are seemingly falling left right and centre, her support is dwindling and so are her dragons and her sanity possibly. Enter John the true heir and the man of the people. Regardless of the writing having gone downhill since the books stopped Im still invested and eagerly awaiting the final two episodes to see how this plays out, if I've learned anything expect the unexpected/

 

So Cerci wins? Or maybe Greyjoys? 

I will watch, mainly because I have so much time invested. But the scene in which Greyjoys shoots those arrows, shows that they have a massive range, yet in the scene where Dany is at Cerci's gate, it looks like a few hundred feet of separation, which should be plenty of distance, but she doesn't fire on them which would have essentially ended the war? 

And besides, when Dany is flying right at Greyjoy's ships after seeing her second dragon die, how is it that they were so deadly accurate with just a few spears on the first dragon, but when Dany FLIES RIGHT AT THEM, 30+ boats can hit a damn thing? I swear that was storm trooper accuracy right there. 

Again, I'll watch, but for such a great show, these finals episodes better step it up if it wants to be considered one of the greats. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Machado said:

That's what happens when you try to fit 20 episodes worth of content in only 6.

I remember when they said it would only be a 6 episode season, thinking "that might cause pacing issues" and tbf to the show, I don't think any episode of this season has struggled with pacing up until this one. Even with 30 minutes or so tacked onto the end of each of these episodes, this one just seemed like they were trying to get ready to tie up more loose ends than they had time for.

But with pacing issues on television like this, some things do baffle me:

 

As

@Lucas mentioned, it would have been great to see Sansa and Arya react to Jon/Bran telling them the secret of his lineage - and how they're cousins, not half-siblings. The facial acting of this show, from day one, has been a highlight and this would have been a good moment to show some human emotion about it. And instead, we don't get to see that... we just see that Sansa has broken her oath to her cousin in a fleeting moment. But rather than these impactful scenes we wish we could have seen, we did get to see Bran tell Tyrion that he likes a particular wheelchair because it's old... why?

Edited May 6, 2019 by Dr. Gonzo

[IgnisExcubitor]

The only issue I had was the lack of violence. Since when did they stop showing beheadings?

I absolutely loved the bit between Varys and Tyrion. Also, the bit between Tyrion and Cersie was powerful in its own way. Despite hating her, he showed that he cared for her and her child. And she saw that. That was top notch acting by those two siblings.

 

 

So, Cleganebowl is on. 

 

[6666]

Jon is a bit of a joke now. Don't like Dany either (but I think the show wants you to go against her by design now).

Unpopular opinion but... SANSA FOR THE THRONE!! Unlikely that it's going to happen and the rest of this season will probably concentrate more on Sansa having sex that she enjoys so that fans can go "Yasss queeen".

[RandoEFC+]

The pacing did take a very noticeable shift during Season 7, and the travel times got wacky, we saw some of that again in this episode but HBO wanted it wrapped up where Benioff and Weiss I believe wanted an extra season, so from that point of view they've had their hands tied a bit. We are missing the good old days of having a 'filler' scene for dialogue and character development that made a journey seem a bit longer.

What we also need to factor in how the storylines have converged as well. Take season 3 where you had distinct plots in Kings Landing, Jaime and Brienne, Arya and the Hound, Jon with the wildlings, Bran and Rickon's travels and Robb Stark at Riverrun, there was loads more jumping around and more storylines to share the screen time. Now we basically have Winterfell and Kings Landing so when you get 30 minutes in each place in the episode instead of 10 minutes the plot will obviously move faster than it used to.

That's not to excuse the whole thing though. Early days of season one they spent a whole episode on the journey from Winterfell to Kings Landing and they filled the time with good story telling.

[Batard]

How the fuck did they not spot a Starbucks cup 

[RandoEFC+]

That's proper embarrassing. How does Emilia not pick up on it let alone the rest of the crew who are responsible for that sort of thing.

[Batard]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

That's proper embarrassing. How does Emilia not pick up on it let alone the rest of the crew who are responsible for that sort of thing.

It’s really poor. It all feels a bit rushed and lazy as they push across the line. Accidents occur and mistakes are made, but this is basics. When going in for a shot, all personal effects and drinks offset 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, 6666 said:

Jon is a bit of a joke now. Don't like Dany either (but I think the show wants you to go against her by design now).

Unpopular opinion but... SANSA FOR THE THRONE!! Unlikely that it's going to happen and the rest of this season will probably concentrate more on Sansa having sex that she enjoys so that fans can go "Yasss queeen".

Lol what

My theory is Dany is going to be revealed to be what Varys, Tyrion, Sansa all fear - a tyrant mad for the Iron Throne who'll do whatever it takes to win the throne. I think the next episode will feature Jon & Dany squaring off, with ultimately Jon prevailing. I don't think there will be a big battle between Cersei's forces and Jon's... I think ultimately to reunite the realm Jon, the rightful king, will end up marrying Cersei. I think there'll be a bunch of shite in between Jon and Cersei marrying that leads us to that destination... but I think ultimately that's what will happen. This ties in with the clues we've been given from the writers before the season started, where they said "the show has a bittersweet ending" and the actors saying "fans will either love the ending, or hate the ending."

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lol what

 

  Reveal hidden contents

My theory is Dany is going to be revealed to be what Varys, Tyrion, Sansa all fear - a tyrant mad for the Iron Throne who'll do whatever it takes to win the throne. I think the next episode will feature Jon & Dany squaring off, with ultimately Jon prevailing. I don't think there will be a big battle between Cersei's forces and Jon's... I think ultimately to reunite the realm Jon, the rightful king, will end up marrying Cersei. I think there'll be a bunch of shite in between Jon and Cersei marrying that leads us to that destination... but I think ultimately that's what will happen. This ties in with the clues we've been given from the writers before the season started, where they said "the show has a bittersweet ending" and the actors saying "fans will either love the ending, or hate the ending."

 

Jon and Cersei getting married will never happen. Cersei will die at the end of the season.

When it comes to Jon vs Dany though, I can see them having a conflict. I don't know how much you know about the "Nissa Nissa" prophecy from the literature but it's something about The Prince that was Promised who everyone thinks is Jon will drive his sword through his lover's heart in a last great sacrifice which will allow his sword to become Lightbringer and him to fulfil the prophecy. I can certainly see a scenario where she tells Jon she's going to fly over and burn the city down against all of her advisors' suggestions and the only way he can save the civilians is to drive his sword (the metal one this time) through her.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

 

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Jon and Cersei getting married will never happen. Cersei will die at the end of the season.

When it comes to Jon vs Dany though, I can see them having a conflict. I don't know how much you know about the "Nissa Nissa" prophecy from the literature but it's something about The Prince that was Promised who everyone thinks is Jon will drive his sword through his lover's heart in a last great sacrifice which will allow his sword to become Lightbringer and him to fulfil the prophecy. I can certainly see a scenario where she tells Jon she's going to fly over and burn the city down against all of her advisors' suggestions and the only way he can save the civilians is to drive his sword (the metal one this time) through her.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like Cersei to die at the end of the season. She certainly deserves it. I just feel like the show's got some twists for the end that will have a lot of people thinking "wait, what the fuck?!" and Jon marrying the biggest antagonist left in the show, while also having to turn on Dany - who at the start of the show up until very recently was one of the show's heroes.

But yeah that "Nissa Nissa" prophecy is why I think there will be conflict between them (and why everyone else seems to think there will be a conflict between them) and for Jon to be Azor Ahai 2, he'll have to make that sacrifice. They've also been nudging us to believe that Dany will become "the mad queen" and that Jon is the best suited to rule. It seemed as though Varys has already made his mind, and he and Baelish were the two who played the game of thrones best. So who knows what schemes he's got coming and what they might mean for Dany and/or Jon.

I wish they'd released all the episodes at once after making us wait longer for this one. After years of being addicted to the show, being just over halfway through the final season with the last episode being one I found pretty underwhelming just makes me wish we could see how the bloody thing will end.

[Tommy]

Wasn't that episode kind of stupid?

 

Why would they demand Cersei's immediate surrender with their tiny army?

It really is a pity how much they have dumbed that show down. I still like it, but it's so much more bland and generic compared to the first seasons. 

At least Varys is now somewhat involved again... I miss Littlefinger.

[Tommy]

Well, fuck it. As dumb as the show now might be, I'm rooting for Sansa! She has learned a lot from Littlefinger, and it really shows, IMO.