England National Team Discussion

[Rick]

Thought it was a bit insulting the way he spoke about Trent. Like he’s some random 18 year old who played once or twice before. 

[Danny]

7 minutes ago, Rick said:

Thought it was a bit insulting the way he spoke about Trent. Like he’s some random 18 year old who played once or twice before. 

Didn’t see the interview but the quotes don’t seem that bad?

[Rick]

59 minutes ago, Danny said:

Didn’t see the interview but the quotes don’t seem that bad?

It’s the part about him being a “great talent” and that he is sure he will be part of the England setup in the future. 
 

Not that I’m arsed that Trent wasn’t called up, but why exactly is Reece James in over him? 

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Rick said:

It’s the part about him being a “great talent” and that he is sure he will be part of the England setup in the future. 
 

Not that I’m arsed that Trent wasn’t called up, but why exactly is Reece James in over him? 

Better well rounded player. 

[Stan]

21 minutes ago, Rick said:

It’s the part about him being a “great talent” and that he is sure he will be part of the England setup in the future

What's wrong with that? 

[Rick]

22 minutes ago, Stan said:

What's wrong with that? 

It’s patronising. Imagine him saying something like that about Rashford. Fine to say about a lad who has been called up maybe once, but for a player who has a league medal & champions league medal, it’s a bizarre choice of words. 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Rick said:

It’s patronising. Imagine him saying something like that about Rashford. Fine to say about a lad who has been called up maybe once, but for a player who has a league medal & champions league medal, it’s a bizarre choice of words. 

He is a great talent. 

He has a great future. 

I don't see the issue. I think you're reading in to it too much. 

[Rick]

16 minutes ago, Stan said:

He is a great talent. 

He has a great future. 

I don't see the issue. I think you're reading in to it too much. 

I’m not, you don’t talk about established players like that. He’s not some “up ‘n comer”, he’s been a key part of a very successful Liverpool team for the last four years.

[Whiskey]

Fucking hell.

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, Rick said:

I’m not, you don’t talk about established players like that. He’s not some “up ‘n comer”, he’s been a key part of a very successful Liverpool team for the last four years.

Mountains and molehills come to mind mate

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think it's weird he's made a comment about him not being picked for not being in form, when he's actually looked like one of our better players in recent matches. Whereas he was picking him earlier in September and Trent was waaaaaay out of form then.

But I don't think anyone's ever accused Gareth Southgate of being a smart man 

Probably would have been better for a player that looks like he's struggling with confidence to not have publicly mentioned his form. Especially having stood by him when he was in the worst form of his career - and he's picked and played other players for England without real consideration for their recent form. But international managers do that pretty frequently for players that have performed for them.

I don't think it's particularly good man management from Southgate. I also think he doesn't really like playing Trent for whatever reason, tbh. He's preferred Walker and Trippier even when Trent was in better form than the both of them.

It's better for us that he's not selected, I think it's just a bit weird he's brought up the players' form for the reasons I listed above. Especially when he's got an easy and non-controversial answer built in to not selecting any of England's right backs: "we've got a lot of good right backs at the moment and I can't pick all of them all the time."

[Lucas]

I wasn't going to bother commenting as I'm not a fan of Southgate but I will say this.

I am in no way championing Patrick Bamford for England. I've not once mentioned it on here or in any Leeds thread.

But...when you start giving caps away to the likes of Ollie Watkins, a guy who has scored less and assisted less, you have to fight your player's corner.

And Southgate's reasoning about really liking Watkins pressing and runs in behind, Bamford does that superbly for us. It's actually the main reason Bielsa has kept him in this team, for what he gives.

But anyway, what does it matter. The reality is neither will be seeing any minutes at the Euro's anyway.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Lucas

[Devil-Dick Willie]

A long time ago. Well, probably around 2 years ago actually, when Max Kruse was on fire and never getting picked, I came to a realization. 

I don't want my teams players playing international football anyway. 

Playing a dozen extra games a season? Being in an environment where their compatriots can influence their potential transfer moves ALA the Barca cult and Fabregas? Getting injured in a friendly against Gibraltar? Why am I rooting for a player in my team to experience these things? 
Especially at clubs like Leeds and Liverpool, it's not like you need the exposure to pull new fans. Bamford and TAA getting extended holidays at seasons end rather than playing another 2 friendlies and 3 or 4 competitive games, spending an extra 6 weeks in training can only be good for your clubs. 

[Lucas]

6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

A long time ago. Well, probably around 2 years ago actually, when Max Kruse was on fire and never getting picked, I came to a realization. 

I don't want my teams players playing international football anyway. 

Playing a dozen extra games a season? Being in an environment where their compatriots can influence their potential transfer moves ALA the Barca cult and Fabregas? Getting injured in a friendly against Gibraltar? Why am I rooting for a player in my team to experience these things? 
Especially at clubs like Leeds and Liverpool, it's not like you need the exposure to pull new fans. Bamford and TAA getting extended holidays at seasons end rather than playing another 2 friendlies and 3 or 4 competitive games, spending an extra 6 weeks in training can only be good for your clubs. 

That is actually true to be fair. Being selfish, I don't want to risk our player's fitness when he isn't with us.

However, I do feel for him on a personal level not to have that moment. He does miss some sitters but he's performed above what I ever expected, for his sake I'd have liked to see him rewarded.

In truth, if England are turning to the likes of Pat and Watkins mind, we're in more trouble than I thought.

And to be fair, it's only due to Ings being injured anyway.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Lucas

[Smiley Culture]

TAA has played 89 (EIGHTY NINE) games since the start of 19/20 and 46 since football resumed in June. I know he’s a young lad but it’s San Marino, Albania and Poland. We can get by without him, we know what he’s about and how he plays and while he’s in good form, we’ve got options in that position elsewhere. 

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

TAA has played 89 (EIGHTY NINE) games since the start of 19/20 and 46 since football resumed in June. I know he’s a young lad but it’s San Marino, Albania and Poland. We can get by without him, we know what he’s about and how he plays and while he’s in good form, we’ve got options in that position elsewhere. 

Please don't be so patronising

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Please don't be so patronising

It's a poor choice of words from Southgate for all the reasons @Dr. Gonzomentioned. Not arsed one bit like because it should mean Liverpool benefit from it

[Smiley Culture]

I don’t think Southgate’s comments are that bad. TAA’s form did drop (as did Liverpool’s as a collective) and he has taken steps in the right direction and is/has regained form. He has also picked players on form in the past and he’s done so here again. 

[Devil]

Lingard was established, Deli Alli was established and yet both of them were dropped from the squad without this much media coverage. 

Trent plays in England's most competitive position at this time so any dip in form should rightfully result in a swap around and in my opinion that should go for anyone who has a major dip in form as well. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I’m fine with Southgate never picking any of our players again, tbh. Long may England selections look like this

[Dr. Gonzo]

Nice, Southgate might not even pick him for the Euros. Hopefully that creates a nice rift between them and if Southgate doesn’t get sacked maybe we stop seeing him play for England for a while.

Trent might not like that, but it’s a lot better for us

[Dan+]

On 19/03/2021 at 00:21, Devil-Dick Willie said:

A long time ago. Well, probably around 2 years ago actually, when Max Kruse was on fire and never getting picked, I came to a realization. 

I don't want my teams players playing international football anyway. 

Playing a dozen extra games a season? Being in an environment where their compatriots can influence their potential transfer moves ALA the Barca cult and Fabregas? Getting injured in a friendly against Gibraltar? Why am I rooting for a player in my team to experience these things? 
Especially at clubs like Leeds and Liverpool, it's not like you need the exposure to pull new fans. Bamford and TAA getting extended holidays at seasons end rather than playing another 2 friendlies and 3 or 4 competitive games, spending an extra 6 weeks in training can only be good for your clubs. 

I think the two cancel each other out a bit. Either situation could lead to Bamford thinking the best thing is a move to a bigger club. That said I don't exactly think Villa and Leeds are a great deal apart so maybe not.

[Danny]

On 19/03/2021 at 00:27, Lucas said:

That is actually true to be fair. Being selfish, I don't want to risk our player's fitness when he isn't with us.

However, I do feel for him on a personal level not to have that moment. He does miss some sitters but he's performed above what I ever expected, for his sake I'd have liked to see him rewarded.

In truth, if England are turning to the likes of Pat and Watkins mind, we're in more trouble than I thought.

And to be fair, it's only due to Ings being injured anyway.

Don’t think it’s bad at all, Kane is clearly the main striker and Calvert-Lewis has made himself the clear back up striker imo, then you look at Ings and then two strikers who will score 15+ this season. Good depth, nothing world class after Kane but goals in all of them.

[MUFC]

This is a big tournament for Kane, age wise he's at his peak. 

[Danny]

Was thinking about how young this England team is, a core of players that are all between 18-23. I think we know roughly based on this tournament and the last how Southgate will have us play, but how do we all think realistically our starting eleven will progress for the world cup?

I think when it comes round we'll still see Sterling, Kane, Maguire and Shaw as mainstays. I'm not sure how much game time Foden gets in a team that looks to keep a clean sheet before winning, he works so well for City because of how they naturally stretch the game and push it onto the opposition, but we've seen with England this tournament that Foden has struggled to take the ball from deep and advance with it himself, he's needed more bodies around him stretching the game to be a threat and he hasn't had that.

I think the next area of progression for this team needs to be in central midfield and Southgate needs to find a way to get Mount, Rice, Phillips, Henderson and Bellingham playing a more expansive game. The bolded I hope will get more game time as that's where the technical talent is, I like Rice but his passing game hasn't been that great for us though his dribbles have been good. I like Henderson but he doesn't really stand out for England, he does in a Liverpool side where he's surrounded by world class talent, being managed by Klopp where he can act as the engine room for more talented players...but this England team doesn't have a Wijnaldum or a Fabinho in midfield and Southgate doesn't have the same attacking intent and ability as Klopp does. Outside of them we don't really have any great options, just players like James Ward-Prowse who are good but don't set the world alight.

We'll have to see how Curtis Jones and Oliver Skipp get on this season and next.

But even then, with the players highlighted before, they are central midfielders who take the ball and dribble (Bellingham, Mount, Rice). They're not players like Jorginho, Verrati, Locatelli for example who play a more possession based game, so then do we look to create a system where the midfield hold onto the ball or do we look to create a system where our central mids can take the ball and drive it forward. Generally you want balance, one dribbler, one possession based player and then a passing DM...but we don't have the possession based player, just centre mids who can pass but in their bones they want to charge forward and take a player or two on.