Vegetarians and Vegans

[RandoEFC+]

I can't imagine life without meat or fish.

[Spike]

8 hours ago, Cicero said:

If Vegans had their way, sure animal suffering would diminish, but so would the economy. 

If Vegans had their way people in many countries would die. Imagine trying to live entirely on a plant based diet in Finland during the winter. What would a person eat? Pine needles?

[Rafa Beneathus]

I haven't ate meat or fish for around 22 years or so, basically since I was a young un.

Dont consider myself veggie or vegan but just don't like the taste of meat and I think there's something mentally going on as well as I am reluctant to try many meats. 

[Inverted]

Im a bit mixed on it because I do love meat, but I think I could live without it. At home, my mum has basically always cooked dinners with meat. The only kinda meal we'd have without meat is maybe pasta.

When I was in Denmark and paranoid af about money, I genuinely looked at meat like a treat. After a month when, I realised how expensive everything was, I would only buy minced pork or beef now and then, when it was reduced. I also sometimes bought leverpostej, which is a kinda cheap liver pate than they're mad for over there. 

So yeah for about 8 months I went almost without meat. I'd sometimes go weeks without a single bit of meat. At most, I'd have meat maybe a couple of meals in one week. 

Now that Im alright at cooking, and I know I don't "need" meat, I've definitely been thinking I should try cutting more and passing on all the meat that my mum makes. I lost a shitload of weight in my year abroad, so I guess I accidentally stumbled onto a decent diet out of money worries and sheer cluelessness about feeding myself. Lots of rye bread, root vegetables, mushrooms, broccoli and potatoes.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Inverted

[Honey Honey]

Some real project fear against veganism going on in this thread 

[Toinho]

What are vegan's stances on taking dick or licking vagina? that is animal use?

[Danny]

I do like the idea of eating less meat, it's in every dinner I have. And eating less meats full of steroids and whatever else. But I'm yet to change the habit 

[Cicero]

2 hours ago, Any O'Brien said:

I haven't ate meat or fish for around 22 years or so, basically since I was a young un.

Dont consider myself veggie or vegan but just don't like the taste of meat and I think there's something mentally going on as well as I am reluctant to try many meats. 

I can't believe that. 

We are technically herbivores. As carnivores have something in their digestive system that eliminates all harm the cholesterol from meat gives you. 

[Azeem]

Wow ! You people from first world countries debate on such luxurious issues 

[Happy Blue]

11 hours ago, Tommy said:

Whole chickens? wtf

 

5 hours ago, Toinho said:

Now we know why he's such a cock.

[Danny]

39 minutes ago, Azeem98 said:

Wow ! You people from first world countries debate on such luxurious issues

 

I get your point but animal cruelty is hardly a luxury.

[Spike]

16 minutes ago, Danny said:

 

I get your point but animal cruelty is hardly a luxury.

Animal cruelty not a luxury? Animal products are the most caloric dense foods outside of grains available to many people. A Filipino family can feed ducks in limited areas scraps and then use the fertilised eggs for greater nourishment than what was feed to the ducks; especially as the yield would be higher in tight confines than any sort of crop. A human doesn't need animal products, but for the most part they are reason why many people aren't dead or malnourished. For millions having animals they can be 'cruel' to is a luxury beyond imagination. Even in largely vegetarian societies like India bovine products are a necessity, from ghee to milk. In China where they literally eat anything that has a pulse meat is seen as great social status.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Spike

[Danny]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Animal cruelty not a luxury? Animal products are the most caloric dense foods outside of grains available to many people. A Filipino family can feed ducks in limited areas scraps and then use the fertilised eggs for greater nourishment than what was feed to the ducks; especially as the yield would be higher in tight confines than any sort of crop. A human doesn't need animal products, but for the most part they are reason why many people aren't dead or malnourished. For millions having animals they can be 'cruel' to is a luxury beyond imagination. Even in largely vegetarian societies like India bovine products are a necessity, from ghee to milk.

You've definitely missed my point

[Spike]

Just now, Danny said:

You've definitely missed my point

How aren't animal products a sign of luxury then? It is often said when a society has progressed to the point of eating pork regularly, it has reached it peak in decadence. We are a decadent people and we have unlimited access to animal products that past humans would envy green. Animals products are often both a luxury and a necessity.

[Danny]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

How aren't animal products a sign of luxury then? It is often said when a society has progressed to the point of eating pork regularly, it has reached it peak in decadence. We are a decadent people and we have unlimited access to animal products that past humans would envy green. Animals products are often both a luxury and a necessity.

Animal cruelty is not a luxury, hence veganism.

Most animals we eat are kept and killed under horrific circumstances, that is not luxurious that is animal cruelty.  Discussing animal cruelty is not a luxury because living breathing animals by and large are dealt a painful and deprived life.

People living in poverty doesn't make the discussion of animal rights a luxury, that is stupid.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

Animal cruelty is not a luxury, hence veganism.

Most animals we eat are kept and killed under horrific circumstances, that is not luxurious that is animal cruelty.  Discussing animal cruelty is not a luxury because living breathing animals by and large are dealt a painful and deprived life.

People living in poverty doesn't make the discussion of animal rights a luxury, that is stupid.

Many humans have painful and deprived lives that would be improved if they had the luxury to afford animal products. What you're saying makes no sense. Are you saying that animals don't live in luxury or that ease of access to animal products isn't indicative of a luxurious and decadent society and/or culture? Humans come before animals, always (well of course there are exceptions), you cannot ethically tell a person with hunger pangs that they need to take better care of their animals when they themselves probably live an equally brutal life. When a culture or society has advanced to the point where animal welfare is a serious consideration then it's a culture that has advanced beyond the need for animal products; as it has become a luxury; not a necessity for survival. The squalid conditions of animal farming is due to the decadent nature of many nations. High animal yield is due to high crop yield, only societies with food to spare have high meat based diets, which is most western nations. Which leads to the self-actualisation of animal morality, only when the need for our own survival is removed do we care for the survival and treatment of animals.The ethics of treating animals correctly doesn't exist in a Moroccan goat-herding village.

Choice is a luxury, we can choose to eat meat, or not to and live a healthy productive life. Most people don't have that choice.

[Danny]

I'm saying animals we eat generally live deprived and cruel lives, and that not wanting to contribute towards that is not a luxury.

Theres a difference between simply killing an animal for food and doing what the food industry does.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, Danny said:

I'm saying animals we eat generally live deprived and cruel lives, and that not wanting to contribute towards that is not a luxury.

Theres a difference between simply killing an animal for food and doing what the food industry does.

How isn't the choice not a luxury? You'd quite simply die or fall ill if our society couldn't supply you with alternatives to animal products. Luxury; the state of great comfort and extravagant living. It is nothing but a luxury, you can only live your healthy life because of the luxury. Trust me, if you were facing starvation, disease, and illness you wouldn't be pontificating on contributing towards animal cruelty.

How is there a difference? They simply kill the animals as well, the road to the destination is simply worse.

[Spike]

Only if you subscribe to moral objectivity is it not a luxury, and to subscribe to moral objectivity one must also adhere to or believe in a higher power that establishes said morality.

[Azeem]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

Animal cruelty is not a luxury, hence veganism.

Most animals we eat are kept and killed under horrific circumstances, that is not luxurious that is animal cruelty.  Discussing animal cruelty is not a luxury because living breathing animals by and large are dealt a painful and deprived life.

People living in poverty doesn't make the discussion of animal rights a luxury, that is stupid.

If you kill an Animal for food then i don't see that as 'Animal cruelty' but if you do it as a pleasure/hobby then it is.

[Danny]

29 minutes ago, Azeem98 said:

If you kill an Animal for food then i don't see that as 'Animal cruelty' but if you do it as a pleasure/hobby then it is.

I'm not so much talking about killing animals, more the culture of torture and abuse towards them which is what most vegans for example make a point of.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

15 hours ago, nudge said:

To be fair, nobody would have anything against vegans if it hadn't turned into a hip trendy lifestyle-thing to boast about for many of those who got into it  It's not exclusive to vegans, it's just the old good "holier than thou" attitude that is annoying af.

Pretty much this for me. Got no problems if they want to be a veggie or a vegan, but the smug attitude pisses me off.

Hell, they kicked off because the new five and ten pound notes contain the tiniest trace of tallow on them.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

I'm saying animals we eat generally live deprived and cruel lives, and that not wanting to contribute towards that is not a luxury.

Theres a difference between simply killing an animal for food and doing what the food industry does.

 

Always a fucking stupid comment.

 

Have you seen the animal kingdom. It's harsh and cruel. A chicken sitting in a cage, or living free range has a tangibly better and possibly longer life than one pecking around the forest floor for scraps before being chased and murdered by some predator. And man, have you seen the living conditions of ants? All those thousands crammed into a tiny space. Someone should beseech the queen for better rights for her colony. Or the US will have to inervene.

 

Animals will always have horrid lives when compared to humans. But are you about to buy your goldfish an appartment? Fuck no. My advice to everyone is eat your fucking meat and settle the fuck down. I have a lady friend who doesn't eat meat. She couldn't kill an animal if she tried and she is a high earner so doesn't need to eat on the cheap, so it's no trouble to her. Outside of circumstances like that the whole idea is baffling.

[nudge]

4 hours ago, Cicero said:

I can't believe that. 

We are technically herbivores. As carnivores have something in their digestive system that eliminates all harm the cholesterol from meat gives you. 

We're technically not herbivores either, considering we can't digest cellulose ... Within biology, humans are regarded as omnivores, and rightly so - we've been scavengers from the early days as we have the capability to digest both plant and animal matter. Today it's perfectly possible to live healthy on a completely vegan diet in a developed country if one makes sure to get all nutrients from alternative sources (especially B12 since we can't acquire it from non-animal sources), but we're not biological plant-only (or meat-only) eaters.

As for factory farming, it's horrible because of the drive to maximise output by minimising the costs, thus resulting in horrible living conditions and administering drugs to stimulate aberrant growth. It's nasty af, both in regards to animals and the health of the consumer.

[Danny]

23 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

 

Always a fucking stupid comment.

 

Have you seen the animal kingdom. It's harsh and cruel. A chicken sitting in a cage, or living free range has a tangibly better and possibly longer life than one pecking around the forest floor for scraps before being chased and murdered by some predator. And man, have you seen the living conditions of ants? All those thousands crammed into a tiny space. Someone should beseech the queen for better rights for her colony. Or the US will have to inervene.

 

Animals will always have horrid lives when compared to humans. But are you about to buy your goldfish an appartment? Fuck no. My advice to everyone is eat your fucking meat and settle the fuck down. I have a lady friend who doesn't eat meat. She couldn't kill an animal if she tried and she is a high earner so doesn't need to eat on the cheap, so it's no trouble to her. Outside of circumstances like that the whole idea is baffling.

What are you waffling on about? You are not seriously comparing the animal kingdom to the ways in which humans carry out abusive and torture like farming practices all around the world are you?