Dr. Gonzo Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Blue said: I've said it earlier in the thread, James Rodriguez has been a top player past the world cup. Its a myth that he only did well in that tournament. He was good before and after that. Football exists outside of England. I'm pretty sure Salah's time in Italy was football outside of England.
Rick Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Firmino is an elite player if you're calling Mane one. In fact Firmino is an elite player full stop. Could not be happier with him, Sane and Salah.
Guest Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I'm pretty sure Salah's time in Italy was football outside if England. I've been following Salah since Basel and he's never been world class or as good as James. This includes Roma.
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, Blue said: I've been following Salah since Basel and he's never been world class or as good as James. This includes Roma. I'm not saying I wouldn't take him tbh. I think he'd be a good replacement for Coutinho in the long run, and would allow us to keep our system pretty much the same. I just don't think he'd come in and make an immediate impact and replace Coutinho right away.
Guest Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, FOYM said: James has done fuck all since the world cup. One of the worst posts I have ever read on about 3 different forums. 3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I'm not saying I wouldn't take him tbh. I think he'd be a good replacement for Coutinho in the long run, and would allow us to keep our system pretty much the same. I just don't think he'd come in and make an immediate impact and replace Coutinho right away. In terms of comparisons with Salah, Salah is a great player but he's wasteful. I don't care how many chances he creates, its a preferrence thing but I'd take a clinical player over a wasteful one any day. This is why James is better to me. Salah is good but a bit overrated at times. I've followed him since Basel. Thought he was excellent there, thought he was excellent at Roma and didn't get a chance at Chelsea but I've never rated him as world class, where as James I have.
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, FOYM said: Firmino is an elite player if you're calling Mane one. Yeah, they're all obviously very good - but if I had to rank them it'd be: 1.) Salah, 2.) Firmino, 3.) Mane. You take Firmino out of that front 3 and you lose so much energy and pressing that helps the other two get so many chances. He's also got excellent movement and he's improved his finishing a lot since last year (and the beginning of the season). 1 minute ago, FOYM said: James has done fuck all since the world cup. He's got talent. Real Madrid was probably a big move too early for him and cracking it at Bayern is almost as difficult as making the grade at Madrid. We've seen with a lot of our attacking players that Klopp can take players with quality and the right attitude and get the best from them. If the price wasn't in the realm of a big chunk of the Coutinho money, it's worth a punt. His biggest competition for the role would probably be the Ox or Lallana and if he can get into his world cup form he'd probably thrive with our front 3.
Administrator Stan Posted January 19, 2018 Administrator Posted January 19, 2018 someone confirm if @Blue has followed Rodriguez since he was at Basel?
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Blue said: In terms of comparisons with Salah, Salah is a great player but he's wasteful. I don't care how many chances he creates, its a preferrence thing but I'd take a clinical player over a wasteful one any day. This is why James is better to me. Salah is good but a bit overrated at times. I've followed him since Basel. Thought he was excellent there, thought he was excellent at Roma and didn't get a chance at Chelsea but I've never rated him as world class, where as James I have. But who's produced more over the last few years? Salah has been more productive in an attacking sense. And for someone who's not all that clinical he's scored a hell of a lot of goals this season - so he's clearly improved a bit (or fits really nicely in our system). A hard working attacker, that consistently creates goal scoring chances and gets into good positions in the box and produces pretty fucking frequently is a pretty valuable player. And if you look at his time at Roma, he would have had a hell of a lot more assists if Dzeko was more clinical - so many gilded opportunities spurned.
Guest Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: But who's produced more over the last few years? Salah has been more productive in an attacking sense. And for someone who's not all that clinical he's scored a hell of a lot of goals this season - so he's clearly improved a bit (or fits really nicely in our system). A hard working attacker, that consistently creates goal scoring chances and gets into good positions in the box and produces pretty fucking frequently is a pretty valuable player. And if you look at his time at Roma, he would have had a hell of a lot more assists if Dzeko was more clinical - so many gilded opportunities spurned. They are different types of players and that's a silly argument. James isn't a player who is going to beat everyone in the backline and miss his chance. Sure, you could argue "he creates so many chances he'll always score 1 or 2" and still be fair, but I've always preferred a clinical player who will bury a goal on the first or second chance. If you miss too many chances, you allow your opponent to settle into the game and things get complicated from there. Its risky. James is a playmaker and when he gets a chance, he'll usually finish it. He has goalscoring capabilities and everytime he came on as a sub for Madrid and even Monaco, he scored. This is exactly why as a Peruvian, I don't think Paolo Guerrero is a top 3 striker like some seem to think. He has everything you want in a forward but he's not clinical enough and while I love him as a player, he has a big flaw and sometimes I feel he can be overrated by South Americans. I haven't seen Mane in a very long time but James for me is much better than Salah for what he offers to a team - as well as overall ability rather with technique and vision. Its my opinion and that's who I would take if I had to pick between the 2, without even thinking. Unfortunately, many people like to think he's done nothing since the World Cup which is one of the biggest myths in football. Without him, Colombia wouldn't have gone to Russia 2018 and Madrid has lost world class depth by getting rid of him and its showing.
The Artful Dodger Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Point is Liverpool don't need James right now, you'd be cramming him into a side which is perfectly balanced going forward. They need a decent central midfielder who can control a game, another decent centre back and a good goalkeeper.
Inverted Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 I think Rodriguez is more talented than Salah but that's not really enough to say he's a better player. 1: they're different kinds of player. Salah is a forward, whose game is about running in behind and primarily being a goal threat. Rodriguez is a playmaker. 2: Rodriguez has had one very good season and otherwise been patchy since the World Cup, and was pretty uninspring in Europe for Bayern despite working with his supposed ideal manager. Rodriguez is an immense talent but that isn't the be-all and end-all of a player. He wasn't dropped by Madrid because he isn't talented enough. Salah has been consistently excellent since leaving Chelsea. I'm not saying he's necessarily better (I don't even know if it should possible to say since they're so different) but all other things being equal, I'd rather have Salah. A consistent, hard-working forward who offers a near-guaranteed goal threat against every kind of opponent, or a languid playmaker with bags of talent who flips from dominating matches to being totally shut-out.
Guest Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Point is Liverpool don't need James right now, you'd be cramming him into a side which is perfectly balanced going forward. They need a decent central midfielder who can control a game, another decent centre back and a good goalkeeper. I agree with this - as I myself mentioned it earlier. James would be expensive and Liverpool could invest in better defenders. I just find it shocking that some say he's not done anything since the World Cup, as that's a massive lie.
Inverted Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Blue said: I agree with this - as I myself mentioned it earlier. James would be expensive and Liverpool could invest in better defenders. I just find it shocking that some say he's not done anything since the World Cup, as that's a massive lie. It depends on your perspective because he was incredible in his first season when Madrid didn't win anything, and then won two CLs without being part of Madrid's best 11, and the league in his least active season.
Guest Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Inverted said: It depends on your perspective because he was incredible in his first season when Madrid didn't win anything, and then won two CLs without being part of Madrid's best 11, and the league in his least active season. Sure he was on the bench - but he made an impact whenever he came on. Same with Chicharito. He might be shite now, but I thought he was excellent at Real Madrid. He rarely ever played for them either.
Cicero Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Matt Law and DiMarzio (probably two of the most reliable reporters, the former specifically for Chelsea) stating we are currently holding negotiations for both Dzeko and Palmieri. Think those signings alone could have us ready for the rest of the season. Palmieri looks an exciting talent, although he is coming back from an ACL injury.
Storts Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, FOYM said: Firmino is an elite player if you're calling Mane one. In fact Firmino is an elite player full stop. Could not be happier with him, Sane and Salah. You reckon City are going to sell you Sane? Is that #ITK?
Spike Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Unfortunately for my Peruvian Pal @Blue he has a reputation for deeply overrating his fellow countrymen (which I daresay, he is the most qualified person to rate Peruvians on the forum), which in turn people have extrapolated to over rating Latin Americans in general. Personally, I agree with his assessment of James Rodriguez, and it's a shame that people often dismiss his opinions based on preconceived notions. James is one the premier players in the world, he is capable of dribbling, passing, shooting, set pieces, but at the same time his form ebbs and flows like the tide. The World Cup wasn't a fluke, he has, is, and was capable of that attacking form, it's just that he was able sustain it at an unusually high standard over one tournament. Unfortunately he hasn't been the 'man' for any club team since then, and if any team were to build around him, they'd have a fantastic player at their disposal. That is why he is an ill fit for Liverpool, he wouldn't be the main man, he'd be another tool of the attacking trident, instead of a no.10. Whether or not Salah, Firmino, or Sane are better players than him is an arbitrary debate, as they play in a style and system that is counter-intuitive for a player like James. Would James be able to perform at a level as Salah for Liverpool? No he wouldn't, he isn't a wide forward and he doesn't have the same technical and physical attributes. That being said, Salah most definitely would not be able to perform in a manner James does for Colombia, Salah isn't a no.10, he would be awkward in possession, dribble the ball wide, and doesn't have the vision to begin attacking plays. If James were to play in the 10 position behind Liverpool's trident, it'd be even more lethal than it is now, however it would weaken Liverpool's midfield defence and throw their current style off whack.
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ Posted January 19, 2018 Subscriber Posted January 19, 2018 The James news is kind of amusing, i mean we just purchased him in the summer on a 2 year loan deal with purchase option for €40m or 45 I think it was. Hes done quite well so far, hes not going anywhere.
Bluewolf Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Cicero said: Matt Law and DiMarzio (probably two of the most reliable reporters, the former specifically for Chelsea) stating we are currently holding negotiations for both Dzeko and Palmieri. Think those signings alone could have us ready for the rest of the season. Palmieri looks an exciting talent, although he is coming back from an ACL injury. According to reports in Italy Dzeko has agreed the move and we are just waiting to see if we can get both players with Bat going the other way...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted January 20, 2018 Subscriber Posted January 20, 2018 We're being linked with Jonny Evans again. God knows why. He's got Man City and Arsenal in for him and to be honest, can we really justify £25mil on a 30 year old centre half when we've got Dragovic here on loan, with an option to buy, who is actually playing pretty well? I think Evans gets into our side in the short-term, but for how long? We need to sign a bit younger for me. Our average age is probably one of the higher with plenty around the 30 mark, and a few (Morgan, Okazaki) above it. I think it's on the whole though shaping up to be pretty quiet for us. Unsure if we're being prudent or if we're being knocked for players yet again. Fear it's the latter as a few places were reporting we'd sign a couple in this window. I don't think we're absolutely desperate but I do think we need to look at a right back, and someone else who can actually play with Vardy - assuming one of Slimani or Iheanacho goes. Seems to be an ongoing thing with those two, Slimani back to being the one likely to go of the two with Besiktas and Watford interested. Iheanacho showed a bit of quality the other night, albeit against Fleetwood but he does look a good finisher. Still worry that we're not going to be able to compensate for his lack of all-round game though.
Dave Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 I don't mean to play devil's advocate but he has shown this year for Stoke City that he is more than capable of making an impact in the last 15 minutes of games. When you've got the quality of Hazard, Willian, Fabregas etc. providing delivery from all angles when you need a last minute goal, Peter Crouch would be a succesful target man. If he's not scoring himself he will be giving the defence an option to think about. For six months it's a cost effective solution. Batshuyai needs game time on loan somewhere before the World Cup. Chelsea don't need to fork out money on a Dzeko or a Benteke just yet. Whilst Carroll will not be as cost efficient and will spend 4/5ths of the time injured. Sign Crouchey for six months and reevaulate the situation when there's more time in the summer.
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