Other News & General Chat

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Stan said:

Of course, the response to it though is what I find intriguing.

It is of course tragic that anyone dies in this fashion. But the last sentence you wrote is what gets me. 

Maybe I'm over-cautious but I think paying so much for it is one thing, but seeing that it's only controlled by a 'video-game controller' is what would have alarm bells ringing for me, if this is true. 

It seems an incredibly uncomfortable 'mission' to see such a thing at the depths of the ocean. 

Considering we know more about space than the bottom of the ocean, I think it’s particularly mental they’d go on a submarine that’s just got a ps2 knockoff controller for controls with no backup plan if the controller fails.

[Dr. Gonzo]

They've found debris near the Titanic. If this is the sub, looks like it was the best possible death for these people - nearly instant death in an implosion.

[Bluewolf]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They've found debris near the Titanic. If this is the sub, looks like it was the best possible death for these people - nearly instant death in an implosion.

So many safety concerns being raised over this whole thing.. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

So many safety concerns being raised over this whole thing.. 

Not by the CEO of the company who thought safety regulations just got in the way of "regulation" - but for me that window being rated for just 1/3 of the depth the sub was meant to go... that's probably what ended up killing them.

What I don't understand is... if you're that rich, why not just spend more to go on a submarine that doesn't seem like such a giant piece of shit?

[Bluewolf]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Not by the CEO of the company who thought safety regulations just got in the way of "regulation" - but for me that window being rated for just 1/3 of the depth the sub was meant to go... that's probably what ended up killing them.

What I don't understand is... if you're that rich, why not just spend more to go on a submarine that doesn't seem like such a giant piece of shit?

Me and my mate were discussing that very thing today funny enough... Also considering that's it's £250K a pop to go down you might have thought a wise investment would be to have something that was fit for purpose.. I hope it was quick death for them, anything else like sitting somewhere on the bottom of the sea while the oxygen ran out would have been an awful slow death.. 

[Bluewolf]

The company have just released a statement claiming they have all been lost and are now dead.. 

All crew and passengers on missing Titan sub believed to be dead (msn.com)

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

Me and my mate were discussing that very thing today funny enough... Also considering that's it's £250K a pop to go down you might have thought a wise investment would be to have something that was fit for purpose.. I hope it was quick death for them, anything else like sitting somewhere on the bottom of the sea while the oxygen ran out would have been an awful slow death.. 

3 of the people onboard were billionaires, so £250k a person probably wasn't all that much to them (bizarre statement to make, because that's a huge sum of money... but life is different for the ultra-wealthy). But I wouldn't pay any amount of money to get into something that just seems so unsafe... and with a CEO that talked about safety regulations like they don't even matter. The other 2 people onboard were that French Titanic expert, who'd been down to the Titanic 35 times before - including previous trips on this submarine... and that CEO Stockton Rush.

I think Stockton Rush's legacy make him synonymous with arrogance and stupidity. He died, and took 4 others with him, while going to see the Titanic. The Titanic is basically a symbol of what happens when humans overestimate themselves and underestimate the ocean... and he died in a fittingly similar way. He overestimated his "innovation" and underestimated taking safety precautions while doing something very dangerous.

It honestly blows my mind though - how do you spend a life of studying the Titanic and not learn the biggest lessons from that crash?

[Panflute]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Considering we know more about space than the bottom of the ocean, I think it’s particularly mental they’d go on a submarine that’s just got a ps2 knockoff controller for controls with no backup plan if the controller fails.

The controller by itself is not the crazy part, as controllers are also used by the military in some countries. The mental part is that they relied on a wireless connection, which any gamer will know can be highly unstable/unreliable. Military application of controllers always uses a wired connection.

They did have spare controllers on board in case it failed, but this particular model (Logitech G-F710) relies on a 2.4GHz cordless connection, meaning you need a USB dongle plugged in for it to connect. Each controller will only connect to the specific dongle that it was shipped with, and judging by the way this shitfest went, there is a real possibility they were not aware of this. So all of those spare controllers would've been useless unless they came with their corresponding dongles on board.

Then there's the fact that they used a 2011 knock-off brand, which again, every gamer will know is highly unreliable.

[Panflute]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

3 of the people onboard were billionaires, so £250k a person probably wasn't all that much to them (bizarre statement to make, because that's a huge sum of money... but life is different for the ultra-wealthy). But I wouldn't pay any amount of money to get into something that just seems so unsafe... and with a CEO that talked about safety regulations like they don't even matter. The other 2 people onboard were that French Titanic expert, who'd been down to the Titanic 35 times before - including previous trips on this submarine... and that CEO Stockton Rush.

I think Stockton Rush's legacy make him synonymous with arrogance and stupidity. He died, and took 4 others with him, while going to see the Titanic. The Titanic is basically a symbol of what happens when humans overestimate themselves and underestimate the ocean... and he died in a fittingly similar way. He overestimated his "innovation" and underestimated taking safety precautions while doing something very dangerous.

It honestly blows my mind though - how do you spend a life of studying the Titanic and not learn the biggest lessons from that crash?

People who experience success in life tend to develop the illusion that they can be successful at everything.

He also claimed he had studied disasters in aviation and spacefaring to learn from them. A Youtuber pointed out that he apparently forgot the lesson of the Apollo 1 disaster, which taught us that bolting people into a tight, high-oxygen space will lead to disaster if a fire breaks out.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Panflute

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Panflute said:

The controller by itself is not the crazy part, as controllers are also used by the military in some countries. The mental part is that they relied on a wireless connection, which any gamer will know can be highly unstable/unreliable. Military application of controllers always uses a wired connection.

They did have spare controllers on board in case it failed, but this particular model (Logitech G-F710) relies on a 2.4GHz cordless connection, meaning you need a USB dongle plugged in for it to connect. Each controller will only connect to the specific dongle that it was shipped with, and judging by the way this shitfest went, there is a real possibility they were not aware of this. So all of those spare controllers would've been useless unless they came with their corresponding dongles on board.

Then there's the fact that they used a 2011 knock-off brand, which again, every gamer will know is highly unreliable.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using controllers, because like you say - controllers are used by the military for a lot of countries. Even the US Navy's advanced submarines have Xbox controllers in use for things like periscopes and shit like that. But the controller being used as the only way of navigating... and the only backups being... other controllers? That's shit planning, tbh.

But this was one of those operations where safety wasn't really a big concern.

[OrangeKhrush]

it is so sad that people will turn this tragedy into a political issue.  while the decision and gains were not smart, implying people deserve to die due to political reasons is disgusting

[OrangeKhrush]

by the limited information I think it was a oxygen tank explosion.   either by fire or by exposure to high pressure.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

it is so sad that people will turn this tragedy into a political issue.  while the decision and gains were not smart, implying people deserve to die due to political reasons is disgusting

Who's made it political?

[OrangeKhrush]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who's made it political?

the republic, Twitter trolls, certain media

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

it is so sad that people will turn this tragedy into a political issue.  while the decision and gains were not smart, implying people deserve to die due to political reasons is disgusting

Who implied that they deserved to die?

[Stan]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They've found debris near the Titanic. If this is the sub, looks like it was the best possible death for these people - nearly instant death in an implosion.

This might sound like the dumbest question - they had lots of difficulty locating the sub and there were lots and lots of crews from around the world. Then there's the implosion, and now there's debris which are easily located and (very quickly?) identified to be that of the sub.  How? I'm guessing it's based on the radars these recovery tanks use, in that they can be tracked as they float around?

I saw a graphic the other day about pressures at various levels under the surface of the water - even very close to the top of the sea level, a cork on a champagne will get popped back into the bottle. It's just very hard to even comprehend the kind of pressure the sub was experiencing at that level so far down. 

[CaaC (John)+]

I feel so sad about this yet relieved that they died instantly instead of just lying at the bottom of the ocean and just suffocating in a confined space like that, it would have been horrific.

My dad was in the Navy Subs during the war and I never wanted to follow in his footsteps and join the Navy and the Subs as the thought of going underwater in confined spaces would always send a dreaded thought to me, what if the Sub got stranded at the bottom of the ocean, thus I joined the Army instead.

[CaaC (John)+]

10 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

it is so sad that people will turn this tragedy into a political issue.  while the decision and gains were not smart, implying people deserve to die due to political reasons is disgusting

Why do you have to turn any major news article into something political, or politics in general? this was a tragedy that had nothing to do with politics. 

[MUFC]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 hours ago, Stan said:

This might sound like the dumbest question - they had lots of difficulty locating the sub and there were lots and lots of crews from around the world. Then there's the implosion, and now there's debris which are easily located and (very quickly?) identified to be that of the sub.  How? I'm guessing it's based on the radars these recovery tanks use, in that they can be tracked as they float around?

I saw a graphic the other day about pressures at various levels under the surface of the water - even very close to the top of the sea level, a cork on a champagne will get popped back into the bottle. It's just very hard to even comprehend the kind of pressure the sub was experiencing at that level so far down. 

I don't know the exact answer and honestly, I haven't really looked into it very much... but I think it's because they had so many different crews searching for them in the area around the Titanic debris field, so once the Titan's (btw how weird to name the sub going down to the Titanic Titan... I guess the next Titanic-related sea tragedy will be onboard a vessel named The Tit) debris field was found close-by, and they made the assumption it was them. And they were able to quickly identify some of the the new debris found as the Titans... I think that's how they confirmed the implosion.

I think the reason they had lots of difficulty locating the sub in the first place is because... there was no longer any sub to locate. When communication went down on the vessel along with the tracking at the same time on Sunday... I think that's when the implosion happened and they lost their lives. I think most of the crews looking for them were hopeful that they would find an intact submarine with people still alive in it. I think once the time for expected oxygen to have run out on the craft was up, that's when the search became less about finding survivors and more about figuring out what happened to them.

I thought it would be virtually impossible to have found them in the event of an implosion just because... I didn't think there'd be much left to find and how difficult it is to find something missing in the ocean (after all... where the fuck is MH370?) though, and they managed to find them pretty quickly. I do wonder why the focus was on search and rescue and why that was presented to the media when many experts thought it was more likely they imploded.

In the US, Fox News clown Jesse Watters has suggested the reason for the sub's implosion was because Oceangate was "too woke" - rather than the company's complete disregard for safety norms and standards. I dunno what the fuck that means, but perhaps he should be less of an idiot.

[MUFC]

 

[OrangeKhrush]

with the titan wreckage recovered, we will learn that the boring white guys with 30-40 years experience were right all along and the submersible should never have been cleared for beyond 2000m, less than half the titanic depth.

what we do know is the sub imploded hours after its dive started and that it was due to reaching is maximum crush depth.

what I want to know is how this death trap got signed off for a titanic dive.  smells like corruption at play.  Do the diversity hires also face criminal prosecution for lying about the capabilities.  this entire operation is suspicious

[Rucksackfranzose]

52 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

with the titan wreckage recovered, we will learn that the boring white guys with 30-40 years experience were right all along and the submersible should never have been cleared for beyond 2000m, less than half the titanic depth.

what we do know is the sub imploded hours after its dive started and that it was due to reaching is maximum crush depth.

what I want to know is how this death trap got signed off for a titanic dive.  smells like corruption at play.  Do the diversity hires also face criminal prosecution for lying about the capabilities.  this entire operation is suspicious

Where do you know from, these persons were all guys and white? Assuming you'd know their sex and skin colour from them having an idea what they were talking about? How comes these smells of sexism and racism?

[OrangeKhrush]

2 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Where do you know from, these persons were all guys and white? Assuming you'd know their sex and skin colour from them having an idea what they were talking about? How comes these smells of sexism and racism?

did you not see the interview with the owner

[nudge+]

9 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

did you not see the interview with the owner

You mean this boring white guy with 30-40 years experience?