Off Topic

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, nudge said:

Sounds like you two were having fun  That paintball day sounds class too... And congrats on one more grandchild!  

Still waiting to hear, Chelsea is with her so a little while to go yet but thank you... I am soooo looking forward to having 2 grandchildren running around the house ripping the place up.. 

[Toinho]

4 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

Still waiting to hear, Chelsea is with her so a little while to go yet but thank you... I am soooo looking forward to having 2 grandchildren running around the house ripping the place up.. 

Mate, you’re complaining life is a bit boring but it sounds like 2 grandchildren will basically be good preparation for that zombie outbreak. 

[Danny]

5 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

Sorry about that slight delay... 

My Laura has gone to hospital today to have her baby and we have Leelah to entertain... she wanted to play football but has now kicked both balls over next doors fence..  she does have a good kick on here I will give her that... I have taught her to say Ave it!! when she boots it hard so it's probably my fault.. stupid grandad.. 

On the subject of Laser tag I know what you mean, I had a mate who was really into that when they used to have a place in Kingston but never saw the appeal either.. might as well sellotape a dinner plate to your front and run around the house making star wars noises for all the pleasure I would get out of that.. On our paintball day it was broken down into 3 parts.. We had a storm the beach head and then a take the bridge before finishing with a big open capture the flags bit.. we were climbing trees and all sorts in that one.. loved it!

My dad used to teach my cousins to sing "you're going home in a London ambulance!", which led my cousin when he was a kid to start singing it to an old lady getting into the back of an ambulance in a tesco car park 

[Inverted]

Moved to work thread.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Inverted

[Spike]

Do people want Idris Elba to be Bond because he is a great actor or because they want a black Bond? I'm not sold personally, I like my Bond to be funny and a little cheeky (why I dislike Daniel Craig), and I dunno if Elba is that. Also why I don't want Tom 'mutter and growl' Hardy as Bond. Cavill could be decent, has the lock reminiscent of Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton.

Why are people so desperate for gender flipping and race switching established characters anyway? Wouldn't it be more sincere just to create a new character? Not that it really matters to me (because it's just fiction), but I wonder why people think this way. Personally, I think ti'd be weird if Fu Manchu was suddenly Innuit, or Sherleck Holmes was an Uzbekistani lesbian.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

Do people want Idris Elba to be Bond because he is a great actor or because they want a black Bond? I'm not sold personally, I like my Bond to be funny and a little cheeky (why I dislike Daniel Craig), and I dunno if Elba is that. Also why I don't want Tom 'mutter and growl' Hardy as Bond. Cavill could be decent, has the lock reminiscent of Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton.

Why are people so desperate for gender flipping and race switching established characters anyway? Wouldn't it be more sincere just to create a new character? Not that it really matters to me (because it's just fiction), but I wonder why people think this way. Personally, I think ti'd be weird if Fu Manchu was suddenly Innuit, or Sherleck Holmes was an Uzbekistani lesbian.

James Bond has been portrayed by 7 different actors over the course of 50 years in a continuous time line and most recently in Spectre was alluded to that 007James Bond is a job role, not a specific person.

The flip side to people wanting gender flipping and race switching are people desperate for straight white male actors to spearhead their favourite films. The 7 different actors all look completely different from each other, there is no conceivable way they can be considered the same person from James Bond's timeline to the physical appearances of the actors playing them. The defence that Bond can't be black doesn't stand up and in fact just points to the bias that white audiences generally just want white actors ringfenced for big roles.

The irony in all of this is that once a black actor takes a role typically perceived to be white the world goes crazy, but when white actors consistently take historic roles of characters that their genetics don't match it doesn't even register.

[Berserker]

33 minutes ago, Danny said:

James Bond has been portrayed by 7 different actors over the course of 50 years in a continuous time line and most recently in Spectre was alluded to that 007James Bond is a job role, not a specific person.

The flip side to people wanting flipping and race switching are people desperate for straight white male actors to spearhead their favourite films. The 7 different actors all look completely different from each other, there is no conceivable way they can be considered the same person from James Bond's timeline to the physical appearances of the actors playing them. The defence that Bond can't be black doesn't stand up and in fact just points to the bias that white audiences generally just want white actors ringfenced for big roles.

The irony in all of this is that once a black actor takes a role typically perceived to be white the world goes crazy, but when white actors consistently take historic roles of characters that their genetics don't match it doesn't even register.

Attila the Hun movie comes to mind, and probably some Genghis Khan ones as well as others.

[Spike]

47 minutes ago, Danny said:

James Bond has been portrayed by 7 different actors over the course of 50 years in a continuous time line and most recently in Spectre was alluded to that 007James Bond is a job role, not a specific person.

The flip side to people wanting gender flipping and race switching are people desperate for straight white male actors to spearhead their favourite films. The 7 different actors all look completely different from each other, there is no conceivable way they can be considered the same person from James Bond's timeline to the physical appearances of the actors playing them. The defence that Bond can't be black doesn't stand up and in fact just points to the bias that white audiences generally just want white actors ringfenced for big roles.

The irony in all of this is that once a black actor takes a role typically perceived to be white the world goes crazy, but when white actors consistently take historic roles of characters that their genetics don't match it doesn't even register.

I disagree completely with nearly everything you've said. I think people want actors that portray a sense of familiarity, James Bond is white, usually has dark hair (only one hasn't), tall, in his late 30s and 40, speaks with a received English accent - the character is a self-insert for Ian Flemming. There'd be equal backlash if James Bond spoke with Spanish accent and was played by a midget with grey hair and a beard. If James Bond were black the last fifty years, people would want him to remain to be so, and criticise whitewashing if he were changed (but it isn't black-washing to have him black?). 

You are cherry picking; there has always been constant criticism to any character that is 'white washed' and to disagree with that is completely ignorant. A very biased post that implies that only white people like to see characters their own race. There is a reason why Blaxploitation existed in the 70s and why it featured contemporary references to Black American culture and Black Actors; because it is a market to be targeted. The Angloshpere is still predominately white so it makes sense to have white characters. I wouldn't expect Bollywood to change the race of one of their historic characters for no reason, aside from diversifying. It makes not too much sense really. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Spike

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Berserker said:

Attila the Hun movie comes to mind, and probably some Genghis Khan ones as well as others.

That was in the 50s and it was criticised at the time. Come on, that would never happen today. Breakfast at Tiffanys did the same thing casting Mickey Rooney as a Japanese man. It isn't just white people that are miscast. For some reason the move Avatar the last Airbender cast South-Indians as the obviously Japanese influenced characters. Idris Elba portrayed the main character in the Dark Tower. The point being it's acting! It doesn't really matter, as long as the person can be believed. Hollywood is full on inconsistencies and we could argue about actors not portraying the right culture, nationality, or fucking whatever in between all night. As long as it can be believe, I think it's okay. If an actor is a white Englishman that looks Arab, is it a bad thing he is cast as an Arab character? After all all he is doing is pretending.

If I can act out Napoleon (an ethnically Italian Frenchman from the 19th century, and I'm neither of those things) why can't I act out Malcolm X or Shaft? Because it isn't believable... Maybe Idris Elba can nail Bond, I dunno but when I think of James Bond, I think of Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnan the most.

 

[Spike]

Bond is a narcissistic, manipulative, murdering, ladykilling, alcoholic, gambling, psychopath as well. 

Connery>Dalton>Moore>Lazenby>Brosnan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Craig

[Berserker]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

That was in the 50s and it was criticised at the time. Come on, that would never happen today. Breakfast at Tiffanys did the same thing casting Mickey Rooney as a Japanese man. It isn't just white people that are miscast. For some reason the move Avatar the last Airbender cast South-Indians as the obviously Japanese influenced characters. Idris Elba portrayed the main character in the Dark Tower. The point being it's acting! It doesn't really matter, as long as the person can be believed. Hollywood is full on inconsistencies and we could argue about actors not portraying the right culture, nationality, or fucking whatever in between all night. As long as it can be believe, I think it's okay. If an actor is a white Englishman that looks Arab, is it a bad thing he is cast as an Arab character? After all all he is doing is pretending.

If I can act out Napoleon (an ethnically Italian Frenchman from the 19th century, and I'm neither of those things) why can't I act out Malcolm X or Shaft? Because it isn't believable... Maybe Idris Elba can nail Bond, I dunno but when I think of James Bond, I think of Sean Connery and Pierce Brosnan the most.

 

No, i meant the "recent" one, it's from around 15 years ago. To be fair i get what you mean, i also picture James Bond in a certain stereotype.

[RandoEFC+]

I think Idris Elba would make a good Bond personally. I don't see why it has to be an issue of skin colour at all. That shouldn't be a factor, and that includes that there shouldn't be a situation where you favour a black guy to play the role just for the sake of breaking new ground.

[Bluewolf]

On 18/08/2018 at 01:19, Toinho said:

Mate, you’re complaining life is a bit boring but it sounds like 2 grandchildren will basically be good preparation for that zombie outbreak. 

True... a good distraction so I can make my escape in a tight spot... 

On 18/08/2018 at 01:34, Danny said:

My dad used to teach my cousins to sing "you're going home in a London ambulance!", which led my cousin when he was a kid to start singing it to an old lady getting into the back of an ambulance in a tesco car park 

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Cannabis said:

Wouldn't watch James Bond if Elba gets the part. Absolute disgrace.

Would certainly be interesting to see if he could pull it off... 

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Cannabis said:

I wouldn't watch it anyway. 

Not a Bond fan or is it something else?? 

[Cicero]

I like Idris myself personally, but why is there a need for a black bond? It's like making a reboot of Blade with the character being white. 

 

[Beelzebub]

9 hours ago, Spike said:

Bond is a narcissistic, manipulative, murdering, ladykilling, alcoholic, gambling, psychopath as well. 

 

Another reason why white actor would suit more for this role than a black 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Cannabis said:

Watched all of the Bond films, probably my favourite franchise. Just a shame that it, like many other things is about to be ruined by SJW's.

Love Bond as well. Nothing against Elba because Craig and the producers killed Bobd already with Casibo Toyale. took all the fun out of it.

[Honey Honey]

I'm old enough to remember when Daniel Craig got the position and there was all that hype about how great it was that a working class man's son from Northern England got a posh persons role. I don't recall posh people froffing at the mouth over it and refusing to go to the cinema. There was largely good old fashioned indifference to identity. Fast forward to today and the racialists seem to have a megaphone on most mediums.

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

I'm old enough to remember when Daniel Craig got the position and there was all that hype about how great it was that a working class man's son from Northern England got a posh persons role. I don't recall posh people froffing at the mouth over it and refusing to go to the cinema. There was largely good old fashioned indifference to identity. Fast forward to today and the racialists seem to have a megaphone on most mediums.

I remember people shitting their pants because he has blond hair! Anyways people would go nuts about anything. Cast an American? The internet would explode.

as I said earlier, it’s not racism it’s an aversion to change. Imagine if Lara Croft became Larry Croft, haha

[Honey Honey]

Just now, Spike said:

I remember people shitting their pants because he has blond hair! Anyways people would go nuts about anything. Cast an American? The internet would explode.

as I said earlier, it’s not racism it’s an aversion to change. Imagine if Lara Croft became Larry Croft, haha

I can't agree with the idea that it is just an aversion to change. That makes the assumption that racialist or racist thinking is an isolated cognition rather than manifesting from a pattern of thoughts which in some areas overlap across other processes and behaviours. Aversion to change is also not one all encompassing process in itself, it can be because of fear, anxiety, values, loyalty, laziness etc. It requires digging beneath the surface.

Why I say racialist (which is not necessarily the same as racist) is because I don't believe there is good justification to see Bond racially. To any frequent observer of the forum, the names speaking out against a black Bond are the most predictable on the basis of the way they talk about all ethnic groups. There is, in my opinion, on that basis, a philosophy and way of thinking around race and ethnic groups that has to be present to be in opposition to a black Bond. Particularly when placed in contrast to someone who thinks differently such as Rando.

[Spike]

55 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

I can't agree with the idea that it is just an aversion to change. That makes the assumption that racialist or racist thinking is an isolated cognition rather than manifesting from a pattern of thoughts which in some areas overlap across other processes and behaviours. Aversion to change is also not one all encompassing process in itself, it can be because of fear, anxiety, values, loyalty, laziness etc. It requires digging beneath the surface.

Why I say racialist (which is not necessarily the same as racist) is because I don't believe there is good justification to see Bond racially. To any frequent observer of the forum, the names speaking out against a black Bond are the most predictable on the basis of the way they talk about all ethnic groups. There is, in my opinion, on that basis, a philosophy and way of thinking around race and ethnic groups that has to be present to be in opposition to a black Bond. Particularly when placed in contrast to someone who thinks differently such as Rando.

I dunno dude. Maybe for some people it’s a deeper underlying issue but for others I think they see Bond as British, white, dark haired, middle aged, maverick and any deviation from the formula causes butthurt.

maybe that’s just me but I’m butthurt about the loss of humour, which I feel is an important component as well. You bring up the northern accent for Craig but remember that Lazenby is Australian, Connery is a Scott, and Brosnan is Irish. 

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

I dunno dude. Maybe for some people it’s a deeper underlying issue but for others I think they see Bond as British, white, dark haired, middle aged, maverick and any deviation from the formula causes butthurt.

maybe that’s just me but I’m butthurt about the loss of humour, which I feel is an important component as well. You bring up the northern accent for Craig but remember that Lazenby is Australian, Connery is a Scott, and Brosnan is Irish. 

Even there though you say for others they see Bond as white. For people without a racial lens turned on, the very idea that Bond is white is a bizarre persona they never saw in the first place, they are therefore amenable to change. They could see all those other traits you listed and more but skin colour wouldn't be one of them. It's all about what is salient to the individual and why that might be, but my general point is to be seeing race here is of a certain lens.

Daniel Craig doesn't have a northern accent in the Bond films. Bond is always a posh role. Even Sean Connery is speaking in a very gentry Scottish voice. With accent you can act it regardless of your personal background so I for example might oppose change there and yet not oppose changing race.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

Even there though you say for others they see Bond as white. For people without a racial lens turned on, the very idea that Bond is white is a bizarre persona they never saw in the first place, they are therefore amenable to change. They could see all those other traits you listed and more but skin colour wouldn't be one of them. It's all about what is salient to the individual and why that might be, but my general point is to be seeing race here is of a certain lens.

Daniel Craig doesn't have a northern accent in the Bond films. Bond is always a posh role. Even Sean Connery is speaking in a very gentry Scottish voice. With accent you can act it regardless of your personal background so I for example might oppose change there and yet not oppose changing race.

Well I see him as white because all the actors have been so and the dude that he is based on is white as well.  It's just an appearance thing for me, I'd be as jilted by a red headed Bond as a black one, or even an ugly white dude. You could say people are equally biased towards ugly people in films, haha. I don't see how anyone could not associate Bond with the traits I listed, because that is how he has been in the movies and novels. In fact I recall Timothy Dalton being the spitting image of some early sketches of what the character would look like. 

It's acting at the end of the day, pretending to be someone you aren't. In an enlightened society any actor or actress could play any character. Brad Pitt could be Malcolm X in blackface and Forrest Whittaker could be Winston Churchill in white face. But we aren't that enlightened society and we can't dissociate an actor with a character.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Spike

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

In the books he is clearly described as a white, Caucasian male. 

Casting Elba as Bond would be as silly as casting Ed Sheeran as Nelson Mandela.

Yeah but dude, one is fiction and the other is real and Mandela's ethnicity is key to his nature, not so much Bond. But I do know what you mean; people want authenticity, but there is a lot of hypocrisy.