Quarter-Final - Friday 6th July - Brazil 1-2 Belgium

[SirBalon]

28 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

https://talkfootball365.com/topic/2246-copa-del-rey-2018-sevilla-0-5-barcelona/?do=findComment&comment=151142

 

I thought someone had hijacked your profile that day because it was a one off! 

[Kowabunga]

26 minutes ago, Stan said:

fair enough. just that I see you constantly say 'Antonio doesn't do this, Antonio doesn't do that' when it comes to Madrid players (as above with Marcelo/Casemiro). But it's rare you'll give Barca players credit I've noticed; however you'll go out of your way it seems to downplay them even if they weren't the worst player in the team. 

Nothing like the grudge @Blue holds against Cebolla Rodríguez. 

[The Käiser]

"Outclassed" is harsh a word.  

I think Brazil created more opportunities throughout the game and I don't know why Belgium grew tired or invited pressure in the second half 

Belgium had some luck on their side.  First Brazil hit the post inside the first 15 minutes and then had an own goal off what I think was a double deflection 

There were some close calls in the Belgium box as well. Especially the Kompany tackle.  

Belgium v France.  Wonder what Belgium has left in the tank after 2 exhausting games

[SirBalon]

I never thought that this Brazil side were balanced enough to make them clear favourites for this year's World Cup although being Brazil, you never know so you could never discount them.

Aside from that, I think Brazil's time is in the next World Cup for sure because there's some really top young talent coming through and I think the team will be a lot more balanced next time around. The only issue in respects to "next time" is that the possibility of so many big nations having a mediocre World Cup and making an extraordinary latter stage which is unique in terms of the names remaining may not occur again, but who knows in that respect because that's part of the magic of football, the uncertainty and one bad day making you dig out your passport again.

Finally... Neymar!  He will be 30 by the time the next World Cup comes along (time flies) and even though these days for many that means sorting out your pension documents, for me that means you're still there and he will hopefully not be a spoiled child anymore and a truer leader and more mature.

As for Belgium... They're just another part to the story of one of the strangest World Cups ever!  Not that they haven't got the talent necessary to be up there with the best because they've had this for quite some considerable amount of time already.  Maybe many didn't think it would take Roberto Martínez to get them playing like a team or maybe as I said already, they're just a part of something odd this time around, let's see how it continues to pan out.

[El Profesor]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'd sack Tite just for the Jesus over Firmino shite. 4 matches before today and all of them showed that 1.) Firmino was more effective than Jesus, and 2.) Brazil play better with him on the pitch.

Neymar was a disgrace today. Before this match, at least you could point to his moments of brilliance and being a difference maker. Today he was fucking shite.

Brazil had SO many chances. And that Coutinho miss sort of typified how Brazil played for most of the match barring their goal - good work in front of goal and then awful finishing to end each move. Between that and the own goal, the players must be kicking themselves. Having said that, Belgium looked by far the better side at half time and were deserved winners.

I agree that Tite got it totally wrong regarding the striker situation. World Cup is a short competition, you´ve got to be more flexible and adapt, and in the case it was clear that Firmino deserved to win the starting point. Martínez won because he was flexible, Tite lost because he wasn´t flexible. 

Still, despite his faults, Tite is the brazilian coach. There aren´t many options and he´s the best by far. 

And the early reports indicate CBF wants to keep him. 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

Brazil is highly dependant of what that the 3/4 line can do. They are one tricky pony of agression, suffocation and reliable defence plus übertalent particularly concentrated in that line. Plus the fear inspired in rivals, that's already quite a lot in order to reach later stages of a world cup. But at some point you've to wonder if Neymar is dependable as "leader" to bring the hexa. I am not keen of bullfighting but when he faces defenders he tends to act like he is going to pin the "banderillas" on the bull and gets horned 80%. Very frustrating.

They have many offensive players at their disposal but I don't necessarily think they match "really" well. But apparently there are several players of "talent" coming from Brazil (you should know better than anyone if it is the case), so there are many chances for revamping things for 2022 if needed. They've got a nice keeper already and that's quite an advance to put next to rock solid centre backs. Featuring players as deeplying midfielders with a different skillset in the squad could be interesting in order to have a "plan B" if things go south.

This is so true. Firstly, because the midfield lacked in passing. There is the Coutinho issue, I mentioned. I think he´s a very difficult player to fit in a system. And then it gets worse when you have Paulinho, a midfielder that main strenght is inflitrating the lines to finish and score goals. We missed what you in Spain perhaps had too much, a controller in the midfield. And this where you also can question Tite. He was too loyal to some players. Renato Augusto had an inflammation on his knee and probably wasn´t fit to play 90 minutes, Taison was never good enough to be part of a World Cup squad and Fred went to Russia injured. I mean, this is insane. He could´ve replaced Fred but he took an injured player anyway. We were short of at least 3 to 4 players on the bench. 

 I like Fred, he´s a very good player, but he was injured and should´ve been replaced. This is shocking. The injury happened in London, he could and shuold´ve been replaced.  

 

 

Also, we basically played without a striker. Gabriel Jesus was terrible.  His World Cup was worse than Fred´s in 2014. Technically he was really bad, his gestures were always rushed.  Probably one of the best performances by a brazilian striker in a World Cup. 

 

 

[The Käiser]

Mistake was starting Jesus rather than firmino which others have said. 

That said will Jesus make a return to the national side after a disappointing tournament (0 goals)

i equate it with sané who is good for club but somehow can't translate form to the national side 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

May I remind you all I said Roberto Martinez would win a world cup back when he was managing wigan, as he is an excellent motivator and tacticaly sound rather than an organizer.

2nd of all Euro dominance continues. Those south american cocaine farmers aint got shit. This Belgium side are the real thing, only France can stop them now, Criminal that it won't be the final, and some dross like Sweden or Russia will be (though Croatia aren't the worst I guess)

[Machado]

Hey Pickford...

[RandoEFC+]

12 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Not even close to Pickford's save.

Saves.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

11 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Not even close to Pickford's save.

You're right, it's far better.

[Guest]

i don't get how that's a save. It was going out!

[Machado]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

i don't get how that's a save. It was going out!

You're looking from the wrong angle. If you tilt your phone/pc screen you can see it was actually going in.

[carefreeluke]

Eden Hazard is genuinely one of my favourite Chelsea players of all time. 

[Stan]

If anyone missed Courtois' words after the game... 

 

[SirBalon]

17 minutes ago, Machado said:

You're looking from the wrong angle. If you tilt your phone/pc screen you can see it was actually going in.

I just did what you said and it’s clearly going into the keeper’s bottom left corner without a doubt! 

[El Profesor]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

I never thought that this Brazil side were balanced enough to make them clear favourites for this year's World Cup although being Brazil, you never know so you could never discount them.

Aside from that, I think Brazil's time is in the next World Cup for sure because there's some really top young talent coming through and I think the team will be a lot more balanced next time around. The only issue in respects to "next time" is that the possibility of so many big nations having a mediocre World Cup and making an extraordinary latter stage which is unique in terms of the names remaining may not occur again, but who knows in that respect because that's part of the magic of football, the uncertainty and one bad day making you dig out your passport again.

Finally... Neymar!  He will be 30 by the time the next World Cup comes along (time flies) and even though these days for many that means sorting out your pension documents, for me that means you're still there and he will hopefully not be a spoiled child anymore and a truer leader and more mature.

 

The real problem for Neymar is his entourage. 

Neymar is an immense talent. I don´t think he´s overrated. But I think he´s capable of more. His form during the second semester of 2015 was amazing, that was the best football he played in his career. If only he could find that form again.

It´ll be interesting to see what happens to him after the World Cup. Ronaldinho after the disappointment of 2006 lost his motivation and was never the same player. That was supposed to be his World Cup. How will Neymar react? Hopefully, in a postive way. 

[Dan+]

I think I've ultimately completely under-estimated Belgium throughout. I remember watching them in qualifying against I think it was Estonia - OK, while they're nothing special I'd seen England struggle past them a couple of times and Belgium stuck 8 past them. You could see that Martinez knew how to get most of his attacking players firing on song.

It's fair to say they have two genuinely world class players in De Bruyne and Hazard. They've both been excellent in this tournament. Lukaku has also delivered.

I've ridiculed Belgium a bit but I'm starting to think they might actually win the whole thing. They've been the best attacking side in the competition and that seems to be what's winning this time around - defensive sides aren't doing quite as well I'm finding.

Brazil piled the pressure on in the second half, I did think they were going to pull it off but it just wasn't to be. It's not quite the humiliation of 2014 (not that they'll ever top that) but it's still ultimately another underwhelming performance from them. I thought they were gradually growing into the tournament but they were poor tonight and got what they deserved.

Well done Belgium and good luck to them in the semi. Think I'd sooner them than the French.

[Harry]

6 hours ago, El Profesor said:

 

Coutinho is a funny player. He is obviously a very good footballer, but it´s tough to fit him into a system. He can´t really be winger because he´s not fast and is also easily pushed off the ball. In the midfield, he´s not creative enough. The assist was the only glimpse of creativity from him. It was irritatting to see him always trying to shoot and being blocked. Barcelona has a big problem in their hands. 

 

I've honestly never thought Phil was great. Just quite good. 

But offensively he takes more shots from stupid positions than just about any player you'll see on any team. And you can just see when he's decided to shoot and he'll rarely be deterred.

Can play a great ball but needs to shorten his wind up and become a lot harder to read. 

[Danny]

4 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I never thought that this Brazil side were balanced enough to make them clear favourites for this year's World Cup although being Brazil, you never know so you could never discount them.

Aside from that, I think Brazil's time is in the next World Cup for sure because there's some really top young talent coming through and I think the team will be a lot more balanced next time around. The only issue in respects to "next time" is that the possibility of so many big nations having a mediocre World Cup and making an extraordinary latter stage which is unique in terms of the names remaining may not occur again, but who knows in that respect because that's part of the magic of football, the uncertainty and one bad day making you dig out your passport again.

Finally... Neymar!  He will be 30 by the time the next World Cup comes along (time flies) and even though these days for many that means sorting out your pension documents, for me that means you're still there and he will hopefully not be a spoiled child anymore and a truer leader and more mature.

As for Belgium... They're just another part to the story of one of the strangest World Cups ever!  Not that they haven't got the talent necessary to be up there with the best because they've had this for quite some considerable amount of time already.  Maybe many didn't think it would take Roberto Martínez to get them playing like a team or maybe as I said already, they're just a part of something odd this time around, let's see how it continues to pan out.

He hasn't never strayed far from a back 3 formation and even though he was relegated with Wigan, he had them pinching above their weight for a while before the relegation happened. And of course won the FA Cup.

Guess he has just been the right fit for the right team under the right tournament type.

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, El Profesor said:

The real problem for Neymar is his entourage. 

Neymar is an immense talent. I don´t think he´s overrated. But I think he´s capable of more. His form during the second semester of 2015 was amazing, that was the best football he played in his career. If only he could find that form again.

It´ll be interesting to see what happens to him after the World Cup. Ronaldinho after the disappointment of 2006 lost his motivation and was never the same player. That was supposed to be his World Cup. How will Neymar react? Hopefully, in a postive way. 

I think that at 26 you can't get away with the "He's still young and will iron out inconsistency" too much anymore.  Everybody knows he has immense talent and that he's probably the only player aside from Ronaldinho that has a 2,000 page catalogue of tricks and magic in his feet...  Every time he approaches a rival, nobody knows what will happen because he's unpredictable and unpredictability is what wins you the big games, as long as it's positive.  Ronaldinho for the short amount of time that his career lasted, was magic all the time and a winning weapon for any team.

In my opinion the capability of Neymar (the max) has only been seen once at the highest level which was the Champions League game between Barcelona and Paris Saint-Germain at the Camp Nou.  He won the game that day and everyone knows this.  THAT is what's expected of him, that's the reason he earns top money and that's the reason anyone would want him in his team. 

He has an excuse for this World Cup because of his lengthy injury and didn't have match fitness and rhythm.  But even so, you don't always get the performances you know he's capable of and this needs to change.

[SirBalon]

29 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Wtf, glad you mentioned this, just put my phone to landscape and it doesn't half change the perspective.

When I put it upside down Alisson ended up having to make a tremendous save fo a near own-goal 

[ScoRoss]

Brazil were far too lopsided. Having their three best attacking threats on one side was too easily exploited by Belgium.

Douglas Costa did more than any other players in their front three, and he was only one for half an hour. Sometimes you have to recognise what the defence is trying to do, and instead of trying to trick the defenders (and slowing the game down) there is always a place for just relying on raw pace and knocking the ball past a defender.

[Dalmore]

haha Argentina fans have been waiting for Brazil's elimination so they can start celebrating in front of them in Russia:

 

[El Profesor]

13 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I think that at 26 you can't get away with the "He's still young and will iron out inconsistency" too much anymore.  Everybody knows he has immense talent and that he's probably the only player aside from Ronaldinho that has a 2,000 page catalogue of tricks and magic in his feet...  Every time he approaches a rival, nobody knows what will happen because he's unpredictable and unpredictability is what wins you the big games, as long as it's positive.  Ronaldinho for the short amount of time that his career lasted, was magic all the time and a winning weapon for any team.

In my opinion the capability of Neymar (the max) has only been seen once at the highest level which was the Champions League game between Barcelona and Paris Saint-Germain at the Camp Nou.  He won the game that day and everyone knows this.  THAT is what's expected of him, that's the reason he earns top money and that's the reason anyone would want him in his team. 

He has an excuse for this World Cup because of his lengthy injury and didn't have match fitness and rhythm.  But even so, you don't always get the performances you know he's capable of and this needs to change.

I agree. 

My point is that it´s wrong to question his talent like some are doing. This is not the problem. 

I also think the narrative created by foreign media during this World Cup, painting him as a villain is really unfair and at some instances it crossed the line.  Neymar is not a bad guy, on the contrary.

Some of his flaws as a player reflect deep issues of brazilian society and of our football player development. 

It´s frustrating to watch, it feels like his career is stuck and man, I´ve been watching him since he was 17 and I´m certain he´s capable of much more. But in the end of the day, it´s his life and his choices, and this should be respected.

 

 

[Dave]

Needless to say I'm glad all these South American teams are out and they certainly will not be missed. Even Sergio Ramos would struggle to respect the antics of the likes of Neymar this tournament. The cheating from the Colombians against England too is possibly the worst team display i have ever seen in my lifetime. It's all good saying "well it's in their footballing culture", well maybe it's time they knew their culture is quite frankly bollocks. Whether they like it or not, these footballers have a responsibility to behave as role models to young children that have started watching the game.

I know England resulted to petty behaviour after being rattled against Colombia but compairing the two would be like compairing a shoplifter to rapist that repeatedly offends. Oh, and somebody needs to tell Diego Maradona that everybody sees him as nothing more than a fat mess whose opinions are not taken seriously and is widely held upon as a laughing stock. What a pathetic waste of space he is.

On a more important note, I am delighted for Belgium. I think they've been great this tournament and shrugged off the Golden Generation failing taboo well. An England against Belgium final would be the dream for me. It would show the whole world that the Premier League is coming back to fruition as the dominating league in world football again.