Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

[The Artful Dodger]

I'm not a completely naive hippy, I know full well there would be uproar if Johnson said anything like 'maybe we should prioritise vulnerable in other countries', the public wouldn't have it.

I also understand what Harvey is saying, but as a counterpoint, and being uber cynical, aren't these poorer countries also the most at threat from climate change? If Coronavirus continues to grow there exponentially then we'll have a twin crisis on our hands, further increasing migration from the area and ultimately pressure on the West. Safeguarding lives right now should be the first priority, isn't there some sort of UN fund or UNCIEF that can get involved? As mentioned, the potential for this mutate beyond vaccines is there and far more likely in countries in crowded conditions.

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I'm not a completely naive hippy, I know full well there would be uproar if Johnson said anything like 'maybe we should prioritise vulnerable in other countries', the public wouldn't have it.

I also understand what Harvey is saying, but as a counterpoint, and being uber cynical, aren't these poorer countries also the most at threat from climate change? If Coronavirus continues to grow there exponentially then we'll have a twin crisis on our hands, further increasing migration from the area and ultimately pressure on the West. Safeguarding lives right now should be the first priority, isn't there some sort of UN fund or UNCIEF that can get involved? As mentioned, the potential for this mutate beyond vaccines is there and far more likely in countries in crowded conditions.

It already exists. Lead by the WHO. The UK government (Bank of England) has already pledged $250m, ECB €500m. $2bn raised so far overall is considered $4.6bn too short. Money shouldn't be much of an object here. Efficiency and competence will be. The early warnings are also vaccine hoarding by wealthy nations. Expectation is west will try and counter the hoarding by planning to give their surpluses away for free next year.

Talk of Johnson, Churchill, Hitler, the EU etc is simply viewing the world through a broken lens.

[RandoEFC+]

26 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

Talk of Johnson, Churchill, Hitler, the EU etc is simply viewing the world through a broken lens.

Sounds like you completely missed the point of my post because decrying the lack of international leadership isn't viewing the world through a broken lens. With the communications and technology available to us we should have done better than this across the world, and we should be trying to do better in the vaccination phase.

I'm not an epidemiologist or a WHO expert so I'm not going to pretend to understand all the logistics, but someone should be shouting from the rooftops for the WHO or the G7 to at least signal some sort of plan to look beyond their own countries, even if they only do so once they've got their own house in order.

My point was about the lack of a global approach to a global problem. This pandemic has exposed massive flaws with how we work together in the face of shared adversity. Throwing a bit of pocket change at the WHO as an after thought isn't really enough. Luckily you can rely on a vaccine to dig us out of the hole here, but 9 months into the pandemic the best we came up with was more or less each nation taking a complete scatter gun approach to their own testing and tracing programs, their own border controls, their own lockdown rules, and let's just hope the scientists pull through with a vaccine. 

I'm talking about genuine global leadership. The WW2 example is merely the closest thing I can think of to what I'd like to see. Countries in the strongest position stepping up and leading a global effort. Of course it's completely different and there's loads to it and of course it can't be simplified down to easy comparisons to irrelevant historical events, but I want to see the countries that have the political and financial grunt to do so take this issue by the scruff of the neck for once and help put out this fire across the world after they've dealt with their own back yard.

[RandoEFC+]

18 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Sounds like you completely missed the point of my post because decrying the lack of international leadership isn't viewing the world through a broken lens.

@Steve Bruce Almighty I'll apologise in advance if this is a needlessly confrontational retort but the unfairness of this sort of thing winds me up and knowing how many people out there (not you) think it's just fine that people in other countries should lose out just because of where they were born winds me up more.

My world view is unrealistic, but I don't think you shouldn't therefore hope to see what you want from the world, and I don't think it would be too much to ask to see the green shoots of better global strategy and cooperation in future to emerge from what we've faced over the past year.

Edited January 19, 2021 by RandoEFC

[Honey Honey]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Sounds like you completely missed the point of my post because decrying the lack of international leadership isn't viewing the world through a broken lens. With the communications and technology available to us we should have done better than this across the world, and we should be trying to do better in the vaccination phase.

I'm not an epidemiologist or a WHO expert so I'm not going to pretend to understand all the logistics, but someone should be shouting from the rooftops for the WHO or the G7 to at least signal some sort of plan to look beyond their own countries, even if they only do so once they've got their own house in order.

My point was about the lack of a global approach to a global problem. This pandemic has exposed massive flaws with how we work together in the face of shared adversity. Throwing a bit of pocket change at the WHO as an after thought isn't really enough. Luckily you can rely on a vaccine to dig us out of the hole here, but 9 months into the pandemic the best we came up with was more or less each nation taking a complete scatter gun approach to their own testing and tracing programs, their own border controls, their own lockdown rules, and let's just hope the scientists pull through with a vaccine. 

I'm talking about genuine global leadership. The WW2 example is merely the closest thing I can think of to what I'd like to see. Countries in the strongest position stepping up and leading a global effort. Of course it's completely different and there's loads to it and of course it can't be simplified down to easy comparisons to irrelevant historical events, but I want to see the countries that have the political and financial grunt to do so take this issue by the scruff of the neck for once and help put out this fire across the world after they've dealt with their own back yard.

Elected leaders aren't responsible for much other than money allocation and that's exactly how it is supposed to be in this situation. Anything else is words not actions, for the only International action from government leaders is money. They have little else.

That's the point of the World Health Organisation. They collate expertise and lead it, what we don't need is someone like Johnson or Macron playing to their domestic galley. 

There is no scruff of the neck. If there is a problem with the way WHO are doing things then that is likely to be nuanced and complicated. No one's interested in learning what's going on at the WHO, it's boring to 99.9%. You're most likely to hear from the WHO themselves when it's time for national governments to step up and where exactly they need that to be. They're not shy of speaking their mind.

[RandoEFC+]

The WHO had a word about richer countries hoarding the vaccines the other day. At this point it's obvious that supply and demand, and the logistics of transporting and storing the Pfizer vaccine in particular are the forces at work.

However, I'm not having that when we reach a point where over 50s and front line workers have been given the jab, summer's on its way and we begin to transition slowly back into a normal way of life again, that it's beyond the capabilities of richer, Western governments (and Russia, China, South Korea etc.) to designate a certain portion of their vaccine supply to go to countries that are still on their vulnerable groups and health workers having been crowded out early on, even if it isn't directly at the behest of Presidents/prime ministers. I don't expect it to happen but that's the conversation we're having. If indeed supply is still the limiting factor at the point where the vaccine can either go to a mid-30s office worker in the UK or a front-line medic in a third-world country, it's obvious where it should go if we're talking about the greater good yet for reasons of politics and geography, it'll go to the wrong person. This conversation is about whether there's a viable solution to that. You don't have to stop the vaccination process in the UK until all over 60s in the world have been vaccinated or something, but it would be wrong to still expect to be treated with the same urgency when it comes to supply.

In my naive, ideological little bubble, I'm just saying it would be nice, and surely achievable for something like G7 countries agreeing to cut their vaccine supply by 33% when they've reached certain targets (over 50s, healthcare workers, police, teachers and lecturers, whatever) so that developing countries can start their vaccination programs in earnest. If that's truly too much to ask of the world then it's a sad indictment of our priorities.

[nudge]

There's an initiative called COVAX which is exactly that - a global scheme for equitable distribution of vaccines, especially to lower-income countries that wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, and they expect to deliver at least 2 billion doses until the end of the year. It is backed by WHO and signed by some 190 countries, including the rich ones (except USA and Russia) that will finance 92 low- and middle-income countries through the scheme. It has been recently announced that with the current agreements in place, all those countries will be able to access doses required to protect their vulnerable groups in the first half of 2021. 
 

[Guest]

@Steve Bruce Almighty are you saying that you think it is fair that rich countries have their people that are not vulnerable vaccinated  before people in the world that are vulnerable? Dont undertand what you mean.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, nudge said:

There's an initiative called COVAX which is exactly that - a global scheme for equitable distribution of vaccines, especially to lower-income countries that wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, and they expect to deliver at least 2 billion doses until the end of the year. It is backed by WHO and signed by some 190 countries, including the rich ones (except USA and Russia) that will finance 92 low- and middle-income countries through the scheme. It has been recently announced that with the current agreements in place, all those countries will be able to access doses required to protect their vulnerable groups in the first half of 2021. 
 

At the end of the day it is the people who distribute the vaccine to ensure it is distributed fairly. Countries are going to get more than there fair share if they can. It is good that there are initiatives like this in place.

[Panna King]

Has anyone been tested positive here?  I have so just staying low.

[Stan]

8 hours ago, Panna King said:

Has anyone been tested positive here?  I have so just staying low.

@...Dan and @Steve Bruce Almighty have a while back if I remember correctly. @6666 or @Dr. Gonzo perhaps too?

[Carnivore Chris]

11 hours ago, Panna King said:

Has anyone been tested positive here?  I have so just staying low.

I haven't tested positive as I haven't had any tests but I've been ill as fuck for weeks(better now, but still get pains, nausea and feel fucked when I do physical activity) and after a good check up yesterday, the doctor said I've probably had a virus. But also I've been under tremendous stress.

I didn't have any symptoms in terms of cough or high temperature(which, if I'd have contracted it, it would have been around 5 or so week ago) but I've had all the signs of "long covid". This explains the chest pains and why I thought I was having heart attacks or my lungs were dying. Also the cold sweats, chills, etc I was getting, the lack of appetite, anxiety and general feeling of being unwell. 

I don't know how I'd have caught it if so though? Probably supermarkets? 

I'd do a test but it'd be too late now anyway. Besides you can't go for one around here without a car as you can only drive in to the covid test centre. 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Carnivore Chris

[Stan]

Considering the amount of shit Starmer gets for being 'Captain Hindsight' by Tories, this is very ironic...

 

 

[DeadLinesman]

Booked in for my vaccination on Friday morning.

[Stan]

9 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Booked in for my vaccination on Friday morning.

Good luck.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Stan said:

@...Dan and @Steve Bruce Almighty have a while back if I remember correctly. @6666 or @Dr. Gonzo perhaps too?

I tested negative 

[6666]

14 hours ago, Stan said:

@...Dan and @Steve Bruce Almighty have a while back if I remember correctly. @6666 or @Dr. Gonzo perhaps too?

Yes, just gotten over it a couple of days ago. First 5 or 6 days was the worst, then it's mostly a case of feeling like you have little energy and a bit of a cough.

Edited January 20, 2021 by 6666

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Yes, just gotten over it a couple of days ago. First 5 or 6 days was the worst, then it's mostly a case of feeling like you have little energy and a bit if a cough.

Glad you’re feeling better mate!

[Stan]

14 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Yes, just gotten over it a couple of days ago. First 5 or 6 days was the worst, then it's mostly a case of feeling like you have little energy and a bit if a cough.

Good to hear.

 

Weirdly I've felt the same since last Tuesday. All symptoms of a cold then Friday and Saturday were horrid. Literally all energy sapped, very chesty cough, blocked nose for 23 hours of the day. Weirdly felt much better on Sunday but then on Monday and yesterday it was as if those symptoms were starting to come back - managed to have a good clear-out of my insides (sorry no pics @MUFC) this morning which is good.

I carried on working on Thursday and Friday and regret it. Not sure how I did to be honest. 

[CaaC (John)+]

I mentioned this once before but I am sure I had the virus before the first one hit big time around March 2020, around October/November 2019 I felt fucking awful and I thought it might have been the symptoms of the flu as I had my flu jab a few weeks before and you get that and it only lasts about 24hrs.

I felt like I was on death's door, headaches, sweating, shivering, I had no energy what so ever and could hardly eat, all I did to get rid of it was sweat the fucker out by rugging myself up with jumpers and tracksuit bottoms, a hot water bottle and a bottle of water on the bedside table when I went to bed, I could hardly sleep and tossed and turned, this lasted a couple of days then I gradually felt better.

Our daughter who has done a bit of nursing in her time and has looked after the elderly and sick kiddies always pops in here to see if we are ok, gives us a quick check-over, she brings around a Digital Finger Pulse Oximeter, Oxygen Saturation Monitor Spo2 for Adults and Children with Omnidirectional OLED Display, and checks us over, I was thinking of getting one myself, they don't cost that much.

 

[Carnivore Chris]

I've got a test coming although even if I've had it, I don't think it'll show anyway I don't think as it's "long covid" what I'll have. People are suffering from that without the main symptoms.

I wanted one a week ago but it said the only available ones were at drive in test centres, although they are available now so I've been able to order one.

 

[Panna King]

I am a bit fearful as I am starting to get a chest cough  

Edited January 20, 2021 by Panna King

[MUFC]

3 hours ago, CaaC (John) said:

I mentioned this once before but I am sure I had the virus before the first one hit big time around March 2020, around October/November 2019 I felt fucking awful and I thought it might have been the symptoms of the flu as I had my flu jab a few weeks before and you get that and it only lasts about 24hrs.

I felt like I was on death's door, headaches, sweating, shivering, I had no energy what so ever and could hardly eat, all I did to get rid of it was sweat the fucker out by rugging myself up with jumpers and tracksuit bottoms, a hot water bottle and a bottle of water on the bedside table when I went to bed, I could hardly sleep and tossed and turned, this lasted a couple of days then I gradually felt better.

Our daughter who has done a bit of nursing in her time and has looked after the elderly and sick kiddies always pops in here to see if we are ok, gives us a quick check-over, she brings around a Digital Finger Pulse Oximeter, Oxygen Saturation Monitor Spo2 for Adults and Children with Omnidirectional OLED Display, and checks us over, I was thinking of getting one myself, they don't cost that much.

 

Strange you say this. Round that time in Oct/Nov 2019. For 7 days I had the most severe headaches I've ever had in my life. I'm not one to get headaches either, but my head was pounding like fuck. Is strange I was sat down down and the headache came on in like 2 minutes. But I wasn't shivering or coughing or sweating. Had the headache and was feeling really drowsy. Maybe it was due to season change and it was getting colder? Loads get ill when the weather changes.

[Carnivore Chris]

 

I think it's fair to say that if  @Dr. Gonzo was anti-vaccine yesterday, he's not today...

[Mpache]

Doug Ford embarrassing himself...

The message is good, but his pronunciations are beyond terrible!