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The Palace Fan

Arsenal and the contract(s) situation

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I think this deserves a thread in itself.

Exactly what on earth is going on? Who is responsible to allowing the current situation progress to the state it has? They've already lost The Ox, they could still lose Sanchez, Ozil and Wilshire, then next summer it's Ramsey and Walcott.

It's amazing how such a globally recognised club can create so many problems for themselves.

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The thing is, they are all playing within themselves as well. So much talent there and they risk losing them all for a fraction of their market value. 

People took the piss when we gave  Arsenal £35m for Ox but Klopp obviously saw something in him that hadn’t been nurtured by Wenger. We are now reaping the rewards because his performances have been excellent. Not only that, he’s a really nice kid to boot with leadership qualities nobody knew he had. 

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They are just ridiculous. A club absolutely living off past success and it's a shame because they've got all the resources and tools to be one of the best clubs in Europe.

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Pretty incredible that they could get themselves in a position where they can lose Ozil and Sanchez for nothing in one window.

I think Wenger's lost the plot entirely. I think Arsenal have good players that aren't being used properly in their system. And I think Arsenal have become a bit complacent - thinking top 4 is a given, playing all of these kids in the cup like it was 2005, etc. While they've lost the physicality and leadership that Wenger's best Arsenal sides had in spades, and Wenger's tactics have just gone a bit stale.

And I don't know if he's a big part of getting players to sign contracts or heavily involved in player retention, but for this to happen on his watch doesn't look good.

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Let's be fair, I don't think it's ever been the same at Arsenal since David Dein left. That bloke was pretty instrumental behind the scenes when he was there and would have been doing a lot of micro-managing behind the scenes and had a major responsibility in player recruitment and subsequent retention. He would slap a contract down on that table with two years remaining and get it done. If he was there now, this would not be allowed to happen. Simple.

Let's not forget that they have had all this in the past with Van Persie will he/won't he sign and mucking them about, so it's nothing new.

Unlike most modern clubs which are run by a panel of directors in association with the manager, Arsenal seems to be wholly shaped in the image of Arsene Wenger. He has a detailed and significant influence on every decision that is made and he is seemingly also the man that drives the contract talks with the players; contract talks that are woefully unsuccessful.

It's all a load of bullshit from Arsenal from top to bottom and the club needs restructuring now.

 

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20 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Let's be fair, I don't think it's ever been the same at Arsenal since David Dein left. That bloke was pretty instrumental behind the scenes when he was there and would have been doing a lot of micro-managing behind the scenes and had a major responsibility in player recruitment and subsequent retention. He would slap a contract down on that table with two years remaining and get it done. If he was there now, this would not be allowed to happen. Simple.

Let's not forget that they have had all this in the past with Van Persie will he/won't he sign and mucking them about, so it's nothing new.

Unlike most modern clubs which are run by a panel of directors in association with the manager, Arsenal seems to be wholly shaped in the image of Arsene Wenger. He has a detailed and significant influence on every decision that is made and he is seemingly also the man that drives the contract talks with the players; contract talks that are woefully unsuccessful.

It's all a load of bullshit from Arsenal from top to bottom and the club needs restructuring now.

 

All good posts so far but this one has one of the fundamental reasons behind Arsenal becoming regent mediocrity. David Dein’s departure! I still remember the day he left through the gates of the JVC Centre never to return as an employee of Arsenal FC... A number of us knew that day that a new era was upon us and it wasn’t a positive one. 

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I think you can point to many reasons for how we are managed so poorly behind the scenes. One of the major issues for me is Wenger having so much control of everything. This is not only his fault, this has stemmed from the board/Kroenke giving it to him.

Why this is an issue is because Wenger has a big role in contract negotiations which shouldn't be the case. He is in a position where I don't think he can be balanced so ends up giving players nowhere near what they deserve. Which in turn has created an almost socialist wage structure at the club because crap players are earning far more than they should. 

I mean our wage bill is massive and really our top earners are on about 150k p/w which is pretty low for a club of our stature, but what bloats it is squad players earning a fortune. This in turn leads us to struggle to get rid of certain dead-wood as they refuse to drop the massive pay packet they are on here. A few examples of this are Mathieu Debuchy who should've been off years a go still being at the club and more recently Francis Coquelin. Coquelin was apparently earning near on 100k p/w which meant we got a lower fee for a player most clubs would have got £20m for.

Also keeping Wenger on has led to a lot of these issues. His embarrassing attempt at keeping Chamberlain made the club look so weak, and to offer a player like him who had done pretty much nothing 180k a week was insane. Now players like Ramsey and Wilshere can look at that and say if you're offering him that I'm worth far more. Wilshere is a prime example of us being too slow to react. I get it would have been a risk but why not offer him a new deal on the summer. We had all the leverage, he didn't set the world a light on loan and he needed us far more than we needed him before the season started. We may have got him on a knock down deal, but now we will be looking at the high 100k's with him easily and we have given him all the leverage.

The light at the end of the tunnel seems to be Wenger is losing his power grip on the club. The Greek lad we signed he had nothing to do with him I've heard and I'm not sure he would have agreed to sell Coquelin only a year after offering him a new deal. I hope the board are taking back control and leading us to a much better system.

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7 minutes ago, Chaaay AFC said:

I think you can point to many reasons for how we are managed so poorly behind the scenes. One of the major issues for me is Wenger having so much control of everything. This is not only his fault, this has stemmed from the board/Kroenke giving it to him.

Why this is an issue is because Wenger has a big role in contract negotiations which shouldn't be the case. He is in a position where I don't think he can be balanced so ends up giving players nowhere near what they deserve. Which in turn has created an almost socialist wage structure at the club because crap players are earning far more than they should. 

I mean our wage bill is massive and really our top earners are on about 150k p/w which is pretty low for a club of our stature, but what bloats it is squad players earning a fortune. This in turn leads us to struggle to get rid of certain dead-wood as they refuse to drop the massive pay packet they are on here. A few examples of this are Mathieu Debuchy who should've been off years a go still being at the club and more recently Francis Coquelin. Coquelin was apparently earning near on 100k p/w which meant we got a lower fee for a player most clubs would have got £20m for.

Also keeping Wenger on has led to a lot of these issues. His embarrassing attempt at keeping Chamberlain made the club look so weak, and to offer a player like him who had done pretty much nothing 180k a week was insane. Now players like Ramsey and Wilshere can look at that and say if you're offering him that I'm worth far more. Wilshere is a prime example of us being too slow to react. I get it would have been a risk but why not offer him a new deal on the summer. We had all the leverage, he didn't set the world a light on loan and he needed us far more than we needed him before the season started. We may have got him on a knock down deal, but now we will be looking at the high 100k's with him easily and we have given him all the leverage.

The light at the end of the tunnel seems to be Wenger is losing his power grip on the club. The Greek lad we signed he had nothing to do with him I've heard and I'm not sure he would have agreed to sell Coquelin only a year after offering him a new deal. I hope the board are taking back control and leading us to a much better system.

We sell players with a new improved contract and keep players worth 50 times more Sputnik they’re almost free or maybe even that, free if they can take the stench of playing for Arsenal.

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Sanchez and Ozil will be 30 anyway so let some other mug give them a 5 year deal on £200k.

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Kilbane asked quite vicariously on Final Score earlier, why are Man Utd going to sign Sanchez now for £35m when they can get him for free in summer. 

Erm, maybe because there'll be a host of other clubs interested?! 

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17 minutes ago, Stan said:

Kilbane asked quite vicariously on Final Score earlier, why are Man Utd going to sign Sanchez now for £35m when they can get him for free in summer. 

Erm, maybe because there'll be a host of other clubs interested?! 

Not only that, but Champions League qualification isn't guaranteed for Man Utd this season. Before beating Everton, they'd drawn three games in a row and they're now only 3 points ahead of 5th place. Alexis Sanchez could be the difference maker in that respect, and that would make him well worth the £35m which would also save them a bidding war in the summer.

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4 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Not only that, but Champions League qualification isn't guaranteed for Man Utd this season. Before beating Everton, they'd drawn three games in a row and they're now only 3 points ahead of 5th place. Alexis Sanchez could be the difference maker in that respect, and that would make him well worth the £35m which would also save them a bidding war in the summer.

No bidding war will occur in the summer, Sanchez’s contract is up and is free to leave to whoever he chooses (or who offers the biggest financial package) 

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Just now, LFCMadLad said:

No bidding war will occur in the summer, Sanchez’s contract is up and is free to leave to whoever he chooses (or who offers the biggest financial package) 

If only there was a name for a situation like that :ph34r:

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Just now, Burning Gold said:

If only there was a name for a situation like that :ph34r:

My bad. I thought by bidding war you meant transfer fee. Ignore me I’m tired xD

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Downright laughable business from Arsenal. Wenger deluded himself in the summer that he'd be able to win them around with what they did this season with very little evidence to suggest that he could. Even winning the Europa League wouldn't do that.

Twist this around here and you could argue they've paid £60mil for Sanchez for this season. For what?

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3 minutes ago, Dan said:

Downright laughable business from Arsenal. Wenger deluded himself in the summer that he'd be able to win them around with what they did this season with very little evidence to suggest that he could. Even winning the Europa League wouldn't do that.

Twist this around here and you could argue they've paid £60mil for Sanchez for this season. For what?

And about £50m for Ozil. Any other industry would see an employer costing a firm that much hung never mind sacked xD

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I don't think keeping Özil and Sanchez on was the worst thing. I actually think it was the right thing to do. Although as soon as the club entertained the idea of selling Sanchez it should have been sorted. I still believe we have a chance of keeping Özil if we make the right moves.

For me though Ramsey and Wilshere had to be done a dusted last summer. Now we have a high risk of losing another two of out very best.

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Does anybody think that losing all these players, especially on free transfers, could seriously put them in danger of falling away from the other top sides in league? 

I mean, replacing them is going to cost a shit ton of money and Arsenal don’t really like spending shit tons of money. 

Wonder if Wenger is doing this on purpose to fuck Arsenal over and make it harder for the next manager when he eventually leaves? xD Wouldn’t put it past him!

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I'd take a punt on Ramsey. There is an amazing player in their somewhere. Worth a risk.

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2 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'd take a punt on Ramsey. There is an amazing player in their somewhere. Worth a risk.

Funnily could be said about a lot of the Arsenal squad over the last few years, but somehow it never comes out.

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1 minute ago, Inverted said:

Funnily could be said about a lot of the Arsenal squad over the last few years, but somehow it never comes out.

I think Wenger struggles to give players the confidence to take it the next level. Yeah, he may be able to bring into the first team but never elevates them beyond that.

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An obvious thing that "football logic" seems to make football fans forget is that players have to agreee to sign a new contract... so I always think it's kind of moronic to go on a "why haven't you signed them to a new contract" cry.

If you're going to actually discuss this with any sort of intelligence, the first thing to realise is that it's usually a case by case situation with each player and what they want and if it's feasible for a club to provide it.

Losing Chamberlain wasn't a big deal, can't say anyone's really missing him either. Of those mentioned I'd hope we could keep Ozil, Wilshere & Ramsey. Will be difficult on Ozil obviously, the other 2 I'd be slightly surprised if we lost but you can't tell until you see who else is interested. Don't mind either way on Walcott (although he's likely to move in this window due to him not being involved that much rather than because of his contract so his contract situation is irrelevant). Sanchez is being a dick and reportedly asking for £400k a week if he's going to stay which we'd be crazy to agree to, not playing that well either right now, sell him. Cazorla's is up as well I think but his career generally might be as well unfortunately.
 

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Let's be honest after Ozil and Sanchez the only loss is Ramsey and even then what's he actually done in terms of the Prem and Champions League? A player they could easily replace.

Losing Chamberlain, Walcott and Wilshere would be a blessing in disguise. Arsenal need to invest heavily in another forward and wide player at the very least to steady the ship.

Lacazette is a good signing, but they can't rely on the likes of Iwobi

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1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said:

Does anybody think that losing all these players, especially on free transfers, could seriously put them in danger of falling away from the other top sides in league? 

I mean, replacing them is going to cost a shit ton of money and Arsenal don’t really like spending shit tons of money. 

Wonder if Wenger is doing this on purpose to fuck Arsenal over and make it harder for the next manager when he eventually leaves? xD Wouldn’t put it past him!

I honestly think under Wenger they will drop out of the top 6 altogether and eventually be battling for 7th. They're in decline and they're about to lose some of their best players without seeing anything for them, and the manager doesn't seem to have a clue how to address it.

It's a shame seeing him like this. He's been superb really and now he's become one big joke.

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1 hour ago, 6666 said:

An obvious thing that "football logic" seems to make football fans forget is that players have to agreee to sign a new contract... so I always think it's kind of moronic to go on a "why haven't you signed them to a new contract" cry.

If you're going to actually discuss this with any sort of intelligence, the first thing to realise is that it's usually a case by case situation with each player and what they want and if it's feasible for a club to provide it.

Losing Chamberlain wasn't a big deal, can't say anyone's really missing him either. Of those mentioned I'd hope we could keep Ozil, Wilshere & Ramsey. Will be difficult on Ozil obviously, the other 2 I'd be slightly surprised if we lost but you can't tell until you see who else is interested. Don't mind either way on Walcott (although he's likely to move in this window due to him not being involved that much rather than because of his contract so his contract situation is irrelevant). Sanchez is being a dick and reportedly asking for £400k a week if he's going to stay which we'd be crazy to agree to, not playing that well either right now, sell him. Cazorla's is up as well I think but his career generally might be as well unfortunately.
 

Why didn't you sell them in the summer and buy some others? Your team could be strengthened in nearly every area with realistic targets too. I don't realistically know what Wenger thought he could achieve by keeping Sanchez there this season. Sure enough it's panned out nearly exactly like last year and there's no way on earth he'll stick with you now.

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11 minutes ago, Dan said:

Why didn't you sell them in the summer and buy some others? Your team could be strengthened in nearly every area with realistic targets too. I don't realistically know what Wenger thought he could achieve by keeping Sanchez there this season. Sure enough it's panned out nearly exactly like last year and there's no way on earth he'll stick with you now.

The plan was to sell Sanchez in the summer and replace him with Lemar. The Lemar deal fell through and because of that so did Sanchez's and that's the reason he's still here rather than it being a case of desperately hanging on to him. Ozil is a different matter, likely he'll leave but there's more of a question mark on that. He's done well this season so I don't think anyone regrets not selling him.

19 minutes ago, Dan said:

I honestly think under Wenger they will drop out of the top 6 altogether and eventually be battling for 7th. They're in decline and they're about to lose some of their best players without seeing anything for them, and the manager doesn't seem to have a clue how to address it.

It's a shame seeing him like this. He's been superb really and now he's become one big joke.

This isn't new to us and he's addressed it before. Not receiving a fee is unfortunate but no Premier League team should have problems with having money to sign decent players regardless of income from sales. Not saying we'll magically become title contenders but regularly being outside of the top 6 is unlikely because of the teams outside the top 6 not really having the ability to consistently be in the top 6 regularly. The difference between us and Liverpool and Tottenham isn't actually that big either regardless of bullshit narratives. The whole "they're on an upward trajectory" narrative hasn't meant shit for Tottenham even though their "upward trajectory" has been going on for over a decade. Liverpool have hardly actually done anything either. Mourinho burning down Man Utd is a plus for us and Chelsea have a question mark over a few important things regarding themselves as well. Hardly a case of us being a million miles away from any of these teams. Only Man City really come across as being on a higher tier.

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7 hours ago, Danny said:

Let's be honest after Ozil and Sanchez the only loss is Ramsey and even then what's he actually done in terms of the Prem and Champions League? A player they could easily replace.

Losing Chamberlain, Walcott and Wilshere would be a blessing in disguise. Arsenal need to invest heavily in another forward and wide player at the very least to steady the ship.

Lacazette is a good signing, but they can't rely on the likes of Iwobi

Ramsey is easily a £50m player in today's market he is absolutely brilliant. No way can we lose him because he would be near on impossible to replace and considering how weak our midfield is right now he has to stay. 

It just shows how vital he is that since he has been out we have only won 2 games out of 8. He has also assisted 4 of Lacazette's 8 goals this season and he hasn't scored a goal since Ramsey's has been out. In my opinion he is right up there with the best in the league, he just doesn't get the same recognition.

@6666 I'm not sure the plan was to sell Alexis at all. After the Liverpool shit storm to me Wenger panicked and just tried to flog him and Chamberlain. Why wait until the last day of the window to commit to selling? I suppose you could argue we didn't receive an suitable offer, but Wenger was pretty adamant in keeping Özil, Sanchez and Chamberlain. It was only after the 4-0 where things rapidly changed.

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Not sure we should be scared of losing either Ramsey or Wilshere... Their profiles are over inflated and demand financial levels they don’t deserve.

Ask these questions;

Who needs a player in the position they play in?

How much would it cost to sign and how much would their status demand in wages?

Are you seriously telling me you can’t get as good as or better than them in their position elsewhere in Europe?

They are both mediocrity and reached their ceiling a long time ago like Walcott.  Overrated!

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14 hours ago, Chaaay AFC said:

Ramsey is easily a £50m player in today's market he is absolutely brilliant. No way can we lose him because he would be near on impossible to replace and considering how weak our midfield is right now he has to stay. 

It just shows how vital he is that since he has been out we have only won 2 games out of 8. He has also assisted 4 of Lacazette's 8 goals this season and he hasn't scored a goal since Ramsey's has been out. In my opinion he is right up there with the best in the league, he just doesn't get the same recognition.

@6666 I'm not sure the plan was to sell Alexis at all. After the Liverpool shit storm to me Wenger panicked and just tried to flog him and Chamberlain. Why wait until the last day of the window to commit to selling? I suppose you could argue we didn't receive an suitable offer, but Wenger was pretty adamant in keeping Özil, Sanchez and Chamberlain. It was only after the 4-0 where things rapidly changed.

Ramsey is a good player but if he was that big off a loss then he'd already be on his way out via the transfer market, I just don't see him as a massive loss, definitely think you could replace him by bringing someone in from Europe.

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