Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Harvsky said:

It'll be a failure if the analysis of the UK late lockdown is driven by the concept of "exceptionalism" rather than a lack of transparency in technocracy. We only locked down once they had to air their research and conclusions and they could be openly scrutinised. They were allowed to get away with not doing that for too long. A level of trust was placed in them that might not have been with better open debate.

When technocrats lock away they remove outside knowledge and input. Experts who aren't part of the inner circle are shut out. They remove outside pressure which is what people who support technocracies want. Those of scientific background who oppose the lockdown often blame public and media pressure for it coming about.

Make no mistake, some nations technocrats backed lockdown and so get away with their lack of transparency but you can see even there more minor decisions which are questionable and they are expected to take it.

 

Transparency opens them up to being misrepresented also. People jump on, unqualified people in the media overdramatise it and suddenly the public have issued judgement and any model showing more than zero deaths is unacceptable.

I work in the industrial sector and some industrial plants have diagrams and detailed calculations of certain risk scenarios. I've reviewed drawings of contours of modelled fatal chemical concentrations around the plant boundaries (well into the surrounding neighbourhoods). In water Dam risk management plans have mapped out the expected number of fatalities if dam walls gave way, and where that water would flow, and what the human and financial impact of that will be and they use that to inform risk management strategies.

If that was issued publically and we debate and iterated our way to the outcome with engagement of an impossibly large volume of decision influencers we'd scare the shit out of most people unnecessarily and go nowhere.

 

[Toinho]

7 days in a row with 0 cases in Western Australia. We still have a lot of restrictions in place. Let’s hope this trend continues for as long as possible, we know a second wave is probable, but keeping borders shut until other regions/countries have it under control is paramount. 

[Stan]

Just now, Toinho said:

7 days in a row with 0 cases in Western Australia. We still have a lot of restrictions in place. Let’s hope this trend continues for as long as possible, we know a second wave is probable, but keeping borders shut until other regions/countries have it under control is paramount. 

Positive news! A week without 0 cases is fairly significant in the world picture I would say. Hope that continues. Can't imagine when that will be the case here in UK. Even if lockdown is maintained I can still see case numbers being fairly high.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

14 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I'm not denying that there are as many muppets in pretty much whichever corner you look in. In fact, anyone who has loyalty to a political party is probably a massive idiot because they're basing their support of that party on identity regardless of their policies for government.

The problem with your comment is that it suggests the hypocrites only exist on the left. By saying that the hypocrites on the left are "somehow justified" you're joining in with the footballification of politics by implying that the right-wing hypocrites somehow don't get away with it when they clearly do in equal measure. The thing is, none of them get away with it, and none of them are justified, they just seek out the right echo chambers of like-minded idiots to convince themselves that they do/are, and when there's enough of them, they become emboldened enough to start inflicting it upon the rest of us.

I think the comment aimed more towards the left because that's mainly what I tend to hear more of (for example and as we mentioned earlier in the thread, some hoping that Boris would die when he was admitted to hospital). Of course, as you said, it happens on both sides regardless. 

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Transparency opens them up to being misrepresented also. People jump on, unqualified people in the media overdramatise it and suddenly the public have issued judgement and any model showing more than zero deaths is unacceptable.

I work in the industrial sector and some industrial plants have diagrams and detailed calculations of certain risk scenarios. I've reviewed drawings of contours of modelled fatal chemical concentrations around the plant boundaries (well into the surrounding neighbourhoods). In water Dam risk management plans have mapped out the expected number of fatalities if dam walls gave way, and where that water would flow, and what the human and financial impact of that will be and they use that to inform risk management strategies.

If that was issued publically and we debate and iterated our way to the outcome with engagement of an impossibly large volume of decision influencers we'd scare the shit out of most people unnecessarily and go nowhere.

 

The same argument occurs now from some of the technocrats who think we shouldn't have locked down. So fixated on their way being correct they accuse the opposite view of being the victim of panic and outside influence. It may well be the case to some degree. However once something becomes a political matter the philosophy should be to open it up to diverse opinions as to allow the actual decision makers to be exposed to all views and subsequently responsible for their decision. With the technocrats kept in secret the politicians can and will blame the technocrats and not take any great responsibility for consequences of the technocrat advice they took. The political system of responsibility then doesn't work. 

UK last minute switch has a lot to do with the technocrats not being able to successfully defend their stance when exposed to experts outside the technocrat circle.

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

I think the comment aimed more towards the left because that's mainly what I tend to hear more of (for example and as we mentioned earlier in the thread, some hoping that Boris would die when he was admitted to hospital). Of course, as you said, it happens on both sides regardless. 

Twitter seems to be a much greater source of leftie loons at least in the UK. There are pockets of rightie loons on there as well though and absolute hordes of them if you stray into US Twitter to the extent that the undertones of white supremacy and shovanism on 'blue tick' influencers and Fox employee accounts are genuinely concerning. It's hard to see a way back to the sensible majority of middle people having their voice represented in a proportionate matter but I don't know how we get back there.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

Twitter seems to be a much greater source of leftie loons at least in the UK. There are pockets of rightie loons on there as well though and absolute hordes of them if you stray into US Twitter to the extent that the undertones of white supremacy and shovanism on 'blue tick' influencers and Fox employee accounts are genuinely concerning. It's hard to see a way back to the sensible majority of middle people having their voice represented in a proportionate matter but I don't know how we get back there.

Tbh, I don't bother with Twitter much as I just find it toxic really. 

[DeadLinesman]

I love twitter.........

 

 

[Harry]

 

 

[Honey Honey]

32 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I love twitter.........

 

 

How do you know what is going on in the UK if you can't see Piers Morgan's tweets?

[DeadLinesman]

Just now, Harvsky said:

How do you know what is going on in the UK if you can't see Piers Morgan's tweets?

All I did was tell him to stop hacking dead children’s phones 

[Carnivore Chris]

Everyone talking about the future economy, just legalise cannabis. It should be legal anyway, but legalising that would keep countries alive. Spain and Italy will need to do it especially. In Spain you can already smoke it legally in private places, such as the private clubs there or at home. But it's not legal or regulated at government level. If it was, we are speaking not millions but billions every year. 

I bet California isn't worse off from it now @Dr. Gonzo and Canada is booming.

And then when it is legalised we can bring out a new strain called super covid #19.

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

31 minutes ago, Carnivore Chris said:

Everyone talking about the future economy, just legalise cannabis. It should be legal anyway, but legalising that would keep countries alive. Spain and Italy will need to do it especially. In Spain you can already smoke it legally in private places, such as the private clubs there or at home. But it's not legal or regulated at government level. If it was, we are speaking not millions but billions every year. 

I bet California isn't worse off from it now @Dr. Gonzo and Canada is booming.

And then when it is legalised we can bring out a new strain called super covid #19.

 

 

In California weed delivery was declared essential immediately after our lockdown was announced  - I’ve always wondered why it’s not treated similarly to alcohol tbh. It’s less harmful than alcohol. And California’s made over a billion in tax revenue in the last 2 years since its been legal. And fortunately that’s state tax money the US federal government can’t blow on stupid bullshit like funding states that don’t actually take care of their citizens, so it gets invested into California schools and shit like that.

[Stan]

200k tests/day is now the figure for end of May, Johnson has announced. 

Relates to labs to process the tests in the main. Guessing they'll get a lot of the tests they sent out in the post returned with samples which would go towards the figure. 

[Stan]

This is definitely inexcusable behaviour. And just downright stupid. 

Quote

 

A pub landlord that has breached coronavirus lockdown regulations eight times since the end of March has been served a prohibition notice by council officials.

Officers from North West Leicestershire District Council have taken action after repeated offences at The Boot Inn in Gladstone Street, Ibstock.

Pubs are currently under orders to close in an effort to stem the spread of Covid-19.

The landlord was also issued with a fine by officers from Leicestershire Police after three drinkers were found hiding in the cellar on one visit. The customers were also punished with individual fines.

 

Members of the public tipped off the council and intelligence collected by police officers showed regular activity at the premises in recent weeks.

Police officers made numerous visits to the property issuing warnings on several occasions after finding evidence of regulation breaches.

As a result, the council served the prohibition order under Regulation 8 (2) of Coronavirus regulations introduced by Government in response to the pandemic.

It thought to be the first time an order of this type has been used in Leicestershire.

A breach of the prohibition order would be a criminal offence and the council could choose to issue further fixed penalty fines and consider prosecution and/or review the pub’s licence.

 

Why the police didn't shut it down earlier I do not know. 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicestershire-pub-boot-inn-caught-4108810

[Azeem]

@Carnivore Chris

Weed grows like grass here and it's pure stuff not like that synthetic Chinese stuff, hippie westerns have been coming here for it since the 60s. You need to make a trip 

 

[N U F C]

As I mentioned in another thread I've had to deal first hand with the trauma this can cause. I do think we're starting to get on top of it but were far too slow going into lockdown and now we can see why.

[Stan]

Dutch rules... 

 

Long thread here. 

 

[Honey Honey]

Ex WHO Director 

Click for thread

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Harvsky said:

Ex WHO Director 

Click for thread

I try not to post on here too much as I’ve not got anything positive to say but what a fucking shambles. This information supports how we all felt weeks ago when the WHO said “test, test, test” and we didn’t. The late lockdown.

This is just me being angry now and have no idea what the legalities behind it is but there must be reasonable grounds for manslaughter or something similar for a lot of this government after this? Or someone, someone responsible

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

This is just me being angry now and have no idea what the legalities behind it is but there must be reasonable grounds for manslaughter or something similar for a lot of this government after this? Or someone, someone responsible

I would love for the government (or those responsible within) to be held accountable, but they'll pass the blame on to the scientists or anyone/everyone they can without taking the blame themselves.

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, Danny said:

I try not to post on here too much as I’ve not got anything positive to say but what a fucking shambles. This information supports how we all felt weeks ago when the WHO said “test, test, test” and we didn’t. The late lockdown.

This is just me being angry now and have no idea what the legalities behind it is but there must be reasonable grounds for manslaughter or something similar for a lot of this government after this? Or someone, someone responsible

This government is infested with the Vote Leave campaigners who literally got charged with breaking electoral law and are led by a man who has been sacked twice for lying (once from government itself) yet won the biggest majority in decades because that's where we are as a country. Don't hold your breath.

[Fairy In Boots]

4 hours ago, Azeem said:

@Carnivore Chris

Weed grows like grass here and it's pure stuff not like that synthetic Chinese stuff, hippie westerns have been coming here for it since the 60s. You need to make a trip 

 

When we were just starting out smoking we could get Nepalese black & Hindu Kush. 
 Now it’s all cheese skunk 

[Danny]

14 minutes ago, Stan said:

I would love for the government (or those responsible within) to be held accountable, but they'll pass the blame on to the scientists or anyone/everyone they can without taking the blame themselves.

Yeah that’s my only concern, they’ll find a way to blame it on the science

12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This government is infested with the Vote Leave campaigners who literally got charged with breaking electoral law and are led by a man who has been sacked twice for lying (once from government itself) yet won the biggest majority in decades because that's where we are as a country. Don't hold your breath.

How you can break electorate law and still win a referendum is beyond me

[RandoEFC+]

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

Yeah that’s my only concern, they’ll find a way to blame it on the science

How you can break electorate law and still win a referendum is beyond me

Just make sure nobody finds out until long enough after for the legalities to be too complicated to untangle.

In seriousness, there was a lot of grey area surrounding the whole thing, but the fact it was grey enough to carry in court is pretty bad.