Manchester United Discussion

[MUFC]

Apparently Rangnick is strongly in favor of Ten Hag getting the job.

[LFCMadLad]

22 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Apparently Rangnick is strongly in favor of Ten Hag getting the job.

Is it wreck it Ralph's choice?

[Redcanuck]

50 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Apparently Rangnick is strongly in favor of Ten Hag getting the job.

Mine as well. 

[MUFC]

Rashford transfer request?

[Guest]

People keep saying about the man utd players not being good enough. But pep and klopp get the best out of the players they have. Recent man utd managers haven't done that 

[Rick]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

People keep saying about the man utd players not being good enough. But pep and klopp get the best out of the players they have. Recent man utd managers haven't done that 

We both have much better players. 

[OrangeKhrush]

17 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

People keep saying about the man utd players not being good enough. But pep and klopp get the best out of the players they have. Recent man utd managers haven't done that 

man United have very few players capable of getting into City, pool or Chelsea.    lots of old hasbeens and lots of neverbeens.  outside fernandes and Rancho who else would anyone want

[LFCMike]

4 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

man United have very few players capable of getting into City, pool or Chelsea.    lots of old hasbeens and lots of neverbeens.  outside fernandes and Rancho who else would anyone want

There were plenty on here and plenty of pundits who had them ahead of Chelsea and/or Liverpool at the beginning of the season. And this was with Solskjaer as manager  I never did understand it to be honest.

Edited March 9, 2022 by LFCMike

[Cicero]

I'd take Shaw, Dalot, Varane, and Sancho. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

We both have much better players. 

I know you do. But I still think klopp or pep could get alot more out of them. 

[Guest]

@LFCMike well man utd had finished above liverpool and Chelsea the season before so I think it wasnt that unreasonable to think they could again 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

People keep saying about the man utd players not being good enough. But pep and klopp get the best out of the players they have. Recent man utd managers haven't done that 

United also sign players without really thinking about what their impact on the pitch in the short and long term will be. I think a prime example of that is signing Ronaldo purely to stop City from signing him - world class player on paper but he doesn't really fit in with what United really needed from a striker. Or signing Harry Maguire for an insane fee to "make a statement." There's other examples too, but those are easy ones to pick out.

Pep and Klopp sign players that fit in with their systems. There is a desired way of playing and the players are targeted based off how well they'd fit into their respective systems. That's also why last season with all of our many injuries, we looked extra shite and went on a terrible run of results (the worst in our club's history, strangely enough) - the injuries caused our system to break down and we had no real answer to that until we had enough players that we could get back to the platform of how we generally play.

I don't think Solksjaer ever really did that - first off, it seemed all of the positives of Solksjaer were in his man-management skills and being the "nice guy" to come in after Mourinho went fully toxic on them. Secondly, Solksjaer's not really the sort of manager that I'd call a brilliant tactician. And I think his signings reflected players that were brought in for other reasons rather than how they'd impact his tactics (other than Ighalo & Bruno Fernandes imo, maybe a case for Cavani too).

And with Klopp (and even Pep tbh, I think he had a disapointing first season considering the squad he inherited and his reputation as being the most influential manager of this generation)... they didn't come in and find their squads immediately easy to work with to get playing at the level we expect of those clubs now.

It's not so easy to say "well with United's expensive squad they should be performing a lot better" because if money was all that mattered, United would be a lot better than they are right now. They've not had a manager that's proven they're a good fit in modern club football for a long while now, van Gaal was passed his prime as a top club manager by several years - his last season at Bayern Munich was considered a big failure. Mourinho was maybe a better shout, but his tactics hadn't evolved from when he was still a top manager and football had moved on. Solksjaer I think did a good job in clearing out the toxicity Mourinho left... but he should never have been given the job full time because he just tactically is not the kind of manager you can hope to gain success with at a top club.

Ralph Rangnick's got the pedigree in terms of building up a football club, as a manager and behind the scenes, but let's be realistic... he's never managed a club with the weight of expectation like United. So tactically he's probably got the right sort of ideas for United... but he's also managing far bigger egos and far more expectant fans than I think he's ever had to deal with in his life.

And at the end of the day, I think the players deserve the brunt of criticism from people after so many years of failing with so many different managers. If we believe the reports that United players are unsettled by not knowing if Rangnick's staying or not... it looks a bit like this.

Mourinho: "he's too mean"

Solksjaer: "he's too nice"

Rangnick: "we aren't sure if we like him or not because we don't know if he's staying"

and the reports of comparing his assistant to Ted Lasso... it just strikes me as a bunch of players who think they're better than they are because they are at Manchester United, that know that if they play poorly they're probably safe and the manager will get the axe.

Couple that with players like Pogba, who's inconsistent as fuck and doesn't really have the mentality you'd expect of a talented top level player with his reputation, or Ronaldo, who sulk and/or kick out when things aren't going their way, or players like Maguire who can play consistently poorly but act like they're the hottest shit around, Lingard who's upset he didn't get to move when he wanted being reportedly the source of numerous leaks from the dressing room to undermine management, etc... I'm just not sure they've got the right mix of people to be at a club that's expected to win things at the top level.

tl;dr - I think there's a mix of reasons why United haven't done well despite having an expensive squad with lots of good players on paper. For too long there's been no semblance of a tactical plan for United in the short term or building a club's identity up - until this season (and even then, who knows if Rangnick's the man for the job), too many players that think they're at United because they're good enough when they aren't, and too many shit attitudes within the squad.

United need both a short term plan & a short term plan, as well as a clearout of players that either aren't good enough or have shit attitudes (or both).

[Dr. Gonzo]

23 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@LFCMike well man utd had finished above liverpool and Chelsea the season before so I think it wasnt that unreasonable to think they could again 

I think United finishing above Liverpool and Chelsea had more to do with the issues of:

• Liverpool having constant CB and CM injuries all season - honestly, it's sort of embarrassing for the rest of the league that we came from looking unlikely to make CL spots to finishing 3rd while relying on Nat Phillips & Rhys Williams for our final run-in of the season
• Frank Lampard making weird signings with Chelsea that didn't improve them and his complete inability to sort out a defense

Because this season we've not seen those same issues (touch wood, re: our injuries) and as a result, Chelsea and Liverpool both look much better than United have at any point this season. Hell Chelsea were lucky enough to be able to address the "we look a bit shit under Fat Frank" issue mid-season and ended up looking much better and eventually won the CL.

Idk about anyone else, but I think it's a bit unreasonable if people expected Tuchel to have the same issues as Frank Lampard (especially after Chelsea's turnaround last season) or for us to have the same sort of injury crisis (which was honestly the worst I've ever seen at the club in my lifetime as a LFC fan). Having said that, with the amount they spent on key areas that needed to be addressed (Sancho and Varane in particular)... I expected them to be able to at least be in contention for top 3.

[LFCMike]

32 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@LFCMike well man utd had finished above liverpool and Chelsea the season before so I think it wasnt that unreasonable to think they could again 

Liverpool had no centre backs for half the season and Chelsea had Frank Lampard as manager until about January. I think that explains that one.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Liverpool had no centre backs for half the season and Chelsea had Frank Lampard as manager until about January. I think that explains that one.

There was still reason to think they could finish above them. I didnt think they would myself but I can understand someone thinking it 

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

There was still reason to think they could finish above them. I didnt think they would myself but I can understand someone thinking it 

I think anyone who thought that is an absolute loon to be honest. They probably got caught up in the hype of Man Utd signing an old man and severely underestimated what two proper centre backs does for Liverpool and a proper manager does for Chelsea.

[Guest]

Just now, LFCMike said:

I think anyone who thought that is an absolute loon to be honest. They probably got caught up in the hype of Man Utd signing an old man and severely underestimated what two proper centre backs does for Liverpool and a proper manager does for Chelsea.

I thought they were making progress to be honest. I thought utd would get top 4. They might well do yet but I thought they would have been more convincing. I can understand people thinking they would finish  above Chelsea more than  liverpool because Chelsea didn't have as many injuries and they signed Lukaku to solve there goal scoring problem I know people will say they would do better under tuchel which they have but it doesnt always work that way. I think it was unlikely they would finish above liverpool because having so many players out in one season is unlikely to happen again 

[Rick]

@Dr. Gonzo have you become SirBalon overnight? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Rick said:

@Dr. Gonzo have you become SirBalon overnight? 

@SirBalon and I both agree that I am just a cheap imitation 

I am Balon-lite, at best

[SirBalon]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@SirBalon and I both agree that I am just a cheap imitation 

I am Balon-lite, at best

I lost my powers quite some time back.

Now you’re the master. 

[MUFC]

Impressed again with Ralf’s take on Rashy. Saying he has had plenty of game time and he can look to go in the summer if he is unhappy.

[DeadLinesman]

I’d rather see 11 youth players, relegation and a complete reset. And I genuinely, genuinely mean that. 

[Bluewolf]

8 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’d rather see 11 youth players, relegation and a complete reset. And I genuinely, genuinely mean that. 

I know how you feel.... 

[MUFC]

37 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’d rather see 11 youth players, relegation and a complete reset. And I genuinely, genuinely mean that. 

We'll be fighting for the championship title against Chelsea.

[DeadLinesman]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

I know how you feel.... 

You’ll be doing it soon enough to be fair