Liverpool Discussion

[IgnisExcubitor]

I wasn't expecting Clyne to feature this year. Didn't he crack a bone or something in his back?

On a side note,  looks like Can is off. Don't understand why we don't give him a contract with a release clause. It's better than losing him for free. 

[LFCMadLad]

8 minutes ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

I wasn't expecting Clyne to feature this year. Didn't he crack a bone or something in his back?

On a side note,  looks like Can is off. Don't understand why we don't give him a contract with a release clause. It's better than losing him for free. 

He’s already agreed to join Juve by all accounts. We should have tied him down 18 months ago but it’s too far down the line now. 

[Burning Gold]

1 hour ago, IgnisExcubitor said:

I wasn't expecting Clyne to feature this year. Didn't he crack a bone or something in his back?

On a side note,  looks like Can is off. Don't understand why we don't give him a contract with a release clause. It's better than losing him for free. 

Apparently he wanted assurances that he was going to play CDM, which is by far his worst midfield position, before he'd sign a new contract.

I'm not too bothered that we're losing him. What pisses me off the principle of letting a decent player go for free in this market.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Burning Gold

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Burning Gold said:

Apparently he wanted assurances that he was going to play CDM, which is by far his worst midfield position, before he'd sign a new contract.

I'm not too bothered that we're losing him. What pisses me off the principle of letting a decent player go for free in this market.

I'm not too fussed about losing him either. He's capable of some great football, he's also capable of being totally useless.

I also think we need an actual defensive midfielder more than anything else in our midfield. So I'm okay with losing him if we can bring in a proper replacement.

[Mel81x+]

On 11/3/2017 at 7:34 PM, FOYM said:

Some good news is that Mane is back in training and Klop says there is a small chance he features tomorrow. Excellent news having him back, and hopefully Lallana isnt too far behind. We really need his energy in the midfield.

News says that Lallana comes back after the international break. This is great timing for the busy part of the season.

[Viva la FCB+]

Some random news of the day on your future player; apparently hes in trouble for using 2 forged drivers licenses and driving without a license. Apparently RB has players present their license monthly as well ever since the Reus debacle happend. Faces a hefty fine not sure what else.

https://www.firstpost.com/sports/bundesliga-liverpool-bound-naby-keita-could-face-six-figure-penalty-for-submitting-forged-drivers-license-4193473.html

https://www.espnfc.com/german-bundesliga/story/3259342/naby-keita-faces-six-figure-fine-in-fake-drivers-license-case-report

[Harry]

On 04/11/2017 at 6:30 AM, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not too fussed about losing him either. He's capable of some great football, he's also capable of being totally useless.

I also think we need an actual defensive midfielder more than anything else in our midfield. So I'm okay with losing him if we can bring in a proper replacement.

Me neither. Still just showing flashes of potential and hasn't established himself as a rock solid first 11 player in a position in which we really don't have strong competition. 

I think this is similar to when we let Momo Sissoko leave to juve. Some felt it was a disaster but for me he had always been inconsistent and not an essential player. 

[Harry]

12 hours ago, Mel81x said:

News says that Lallana comes back after the international break. This is great timing for the busy part of the season.

Awesome to hear. It's been quite a long break i hope form and skill returns quickly. 

[Mel81x+]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Awesome to hear. It's been quite a long break i hope form and skill returns quickly. 

Judging by the past it takes a bit to get him going but I don't think we'll have to wait long to see him back to his best.

[Dr. Gonzo]

15 minutes ago, Harry said:

Me neither. Still just showing flashes of potential and hasn't established himself as a rock solid first 11 player in a position in which we really don't have strong competition. 

I think this is similar to when we let Momo Sissoko leave to juve. Some felt it was a disaster but for me he had always been inconsistent and not an essential player. 

I think Momo had better demonstrated his value than Can ever did - but lost his place in the side after the addition of Mascherano, although he got a lot worse as a player after that injury to his eyeball against Benfica.

Can's done more going forward than Momo ever did... but his contribution to the midfield as a unit has been poor, for the most part. I think Momo had more than a few good games where he demonstrated his value to a Rafa Benitez midfield.

[Inverted]

It's one of those where Can might go to Juve and find his perfect role as well as some consistency, in which case he will turn out a great player and it will be easy to look back and say "they were stupid to let him go".

But as it stands now, Liverpool need consistent performers and Can has never really been that. Not getting a fee is annoying but Juve don't throw silly money around, and it's not like Liverpool are short of cash.

[HK85]

It was in this thread a few pages back that Can was 'getting better each week' and you needed to tie him down. What's happened? 

 

[Rick]

He was getting better. Started this season really well, but has drifted back to mediocrity in the last few weeks. It might just be a bad patch, but it demonstrates how lacling we are with quality in the cm position. Im annoyed to lose him, but mostly because hes going for fuck all when we could have gotten 20-30m off somebody for him. 

[Inverted]

It's hard to judge what Can's normal level actually is. He can go from stretches of being a game-winner and bossing huge matches to stretches of totally throwing the whole midfield out of rhythm. 

His talent is undeniable but he seems to lack the footballing maturity to piece it together on a regular basis. 

[Harry]

38 minutes ago, HK85 said:

It was in this thread a few pages back that Can was 'getting better each week' and you needed to tie him down. What's happened? 

 

I think its just that there are those who rate him very highly, and those who like what he could become, but aren’t sure he hasn’t had more than enough chances to become that at Liverpool.

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Inverted said:

It's hard to judge what Can's normal level actually is. He can go from stretches of being a game-winner and bossing huge matches to stretches of totally throwing the whole midfield out of rhythm. 

His talent is undeniable but he seems to lack the footballing maturity to piece it together on a regular basis. 

I think its that his physical attributes if they could be fully harnessed would make a massive dominant player.

[Inverted]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think its that his physical attributes if they could be fully harnessed would make a massive dominant player.

Yeah but it's the combination of his physique and his ability to win the ball and drive through midfield, plus his ability to thread and finish combinations around the box that could make him an unreal player.

But the thing is that there's a fine line between doing all those things and being amazing, and also just dilly-dallying and getting in your own way. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

48 minutes ago, HK85 said:

It was in this thread a few pages back that Can was 'getting better each week' and you needed to tie him down. What's happened? 

 

He had a very bright start to the season. Then he demonstrated why he's got a reputation of being inconsistent, because his performances were absolutely abysmal.

Personally, I think it's his footballing intelligence. His positioning is terrible, for instance. But he's gifted technically and physically - he's got a lot of good qualities. But he can play like a clumsy moron, out of position and unable to find a player with his passing. But when he's not playing like a clumsy moron, he's playing pretty great.

We're starving for consistency though and more often than not, we can't really rely on Can because we don't know which Can will turn up. And if he's not going to sign a new contract with us, I'm not too fussed about him leaving on a free. Sure, if he ever does click and start demonstrating what he can do on the pitch consistently, it would be annoying to lose him for no money. But at the same time, he's come in, fulfilled his contract, made decent progress... but at the same time hasn't made enough progress to where we're throwing money at him trying to keep him.

Like @Harry and @Inverted have said, that physique and his ability to make things happen in the midfield, and with his late movement in the box and vision in the final third... he could be a REALLY great player with some consistency. He's still got the potential to be as great as he can be. But I think we can afford to lose him on a free given his lack of consistency in our system.

 

[Burning Gold]

15 hours ago, Mel81x said:

News says that Lallana comes back after the international break. This is great timing for the busy part of the season.

How long after the international break though?

2 hours ago, HK85 said:

It was in this thread a few pages back that Can was 'getting better each week' and you needed to tie him down. What's happened? 

 

Someone fell for his 3 games on, 10 games off routine.

There's a good player in there somewhere, but he's horribly inconsistent. Beyond that, though, there are key things that hold his game back which he may never overcome; he's not going to get more mobile, for example, which is especially problematic in our system.

The other problem is that he wants to play as a holding midfielder for us, a position at which he's fucking terrible, and one which limits his opportunities to utilise his best attributes.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Burning Gold

[Mel81x+]

8 hours ago, Burning Gold said:

How long after the international break though?

Supposed to be fit against Southampton from what I was reading but we'll know when the day of the match comes.

[True Blue]

Liverpool looks far better with Mane and Salah both in the team and fit, plenty of goals in them. However as before i have to state the obvious that the defense and the attack are nowhere near the same level.

[LFCMadLad]

50 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Liverpool looks far better with Mane and Salah both in the team and fit, plenty of goals in them. However as before i have to state the obvious that the defense and the attack are nowhere near the same level.

It’s totally systematic. At home we have the best defensive record in the league (conceded 1) but away from home we have the worst (conceded 16) which points directly to flawed tactics when playing away from home. 

[LFCMike]

29 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

It’s totally systematic. At home we have the best defensive record in the league (conceded 1) but away from home we have the worst (conceded 16) which points directly to flawed tactics when playing away from home. 

The stats for home and away aren't really comparable until the end of the season though. 9 of the goals we've conceded away came in two games against City and Spurs. At home we've only really played an Arsenal side who were awful at the time and a Man United side who had no intention of coming to try to win.

Most teams are going to be stronger at home anyway. Last season we conceded 6 more away from home, not much difference really

Edited November 7, 2017 by LFCMike

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

The stats for home and away aren't really comparable until the end of the season though. 9 of the goals we've conceded away came in two games against City and Spurs. At home we've only really played an Arsenal side who were awful at the time and a Man United side who had no intention of coming to try to win.

Most teams are going to be stronger at home anyway. Last season we conceded 6 more away from home, not much difference really

I know stats aren’t the be all and end all but from watching every single one of our games my eyes tell me that away from home (and at home sometimes), our defence are left far too exposed, get put under too much pressure when broke upon, which leads to individual mistakes and poor positioning as they all scramble to cover each other. 

I think, especially away from home, we sometimes need to be smarter in our attacking approach. No need for both FB’s to be bombing on constantly at the same time and certainly no need for every midfielder breaking his balls to get into the oppositions box. 

In game management needs to improve as well. How many times have we blown leads in games we were in total control of by throwing players forward in a gung ho fashion when all we should be doing is seeing the game out? 

We do seem to be improving though and I think 1 or 2 astute signings and I little tweak of the tactics away from home should see us right.

[Mel81x+]

14 hours ago, Viva la FCB said:

Some random news of the day on your future player; apparently hes in trouble for using 2 forged drivers licenses and driving without a license. Apparently RB has players present their license monthly as well ever since the Reus debacle happend. Faces a hefty fine not sure what else.

https://www.firstpost.com/sports/bundesliga-liverpool-bound-naby-keita-could-face-six-figure-penalty-for-submitting-forged-drivers-license-4193473.html

https://www.espnfc.com/german-bundesliga/story/3259342/naby-keita-faces-six-figure-fine-in-fake-drivers-license-case-report

The more I see the way he acts the more I wonder if he's just acting out at his current employers knowing where he's going in the summer.