Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

[Bluebird Hewitt]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

That sounds consistent with Melbourne's lockdown measures to mate. Liquorstires remained open for business whilst clothing was "click and collect" or online only.

The weirdest thing we deemed essential and stayed open throughout was key-cutting. Which in Melbourne is generally a small business that sells keys, watch batteries and performs shoe repairs. 

I don't know much about Australia and how they have done with this, but yours sounds more like a local lockdown like Manchester and Liverpool being put into Tier 3. Ours is throughout the entire country, regardless of how good or bad the area has done (as an example, West Wales and Powys have not hit 100 deaths combined, with the likes of Pembrokeshire and Ceredigion having some of the lowest rates in the entirety of the UK. They are locked down with everyone else) . 

As for the items stuff, Drakeford literally said that those who can stay open but with items not essential could not be sold due to 'a matter of fairness' with other stores being forced to close (his closure in Wales, by the way, and not the UK as a whole). Nothing to do with the NHS being overwhelmed at all (that's what this national lockdown is for). I don't think we can even get things like that via click and collect as well (my mate order bowls prior to lockdown beginning, but because his delivery slot fell after it began, they couldn't deliver it). He hasn't helped by announcing what these non essential items are literally hours before it all began (I thought it'd be like the lockdown back in March). As for the online only bit, you're pretty much sending people to Amazon to make a rich guy even richer really, even if others can still open. 

The other issue as well is that we are not near the levels seen back in March. Basically, we are having more restrictions now (despite not being the same level) than we had back then. The prospect of rolling lockdowns after this (which they have also said, with one Member of the Senedd (MS) saying that another lockdown is projected to be in January or February, despite not knowing the results of this one) suggests that when shit hits the fan and England won't bail them out, they have no strategy other than going in and out of lockdown constantly, which will cripple us. They say that this will end on 9th November with measures in place after this, but judging by how everything else has happened, I'm not convinced at all and think this will be extended like the local lockdowns, which proved to do nothing, seeing as some areas were in local lockdown for 5-6 weeks in rates barely dropped, if at all. 

That key thing is a bit odd mind. I know this sounds hypocritical after just saying the above but is that really more essential than others? 

EDIT: As I mention my part in bold, an article has just been published confirming this from Lee Waters, our Deputy Economy minister. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54681885

This is coming from the same guy who last year said that they have no clue over the economy in Wales. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48757245

Edited October 25, 2020 by Bluebird Hewitt

[nudge+]

What they are doing in Wales is a complete madness and frankly, barely has anything to do with virus management anymore. Tape off "non-essential" aisles in supermarkets? Fucking hell. 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

1 hour ago, nudge said:

What they are doing in Wales is a complete madness and frankly, barely has anything to do with virus management anymore. Tape off "non-essential" aisles in supermarkets? Fucking hell. 

Want more of a laugh? 

Man in North Wales ripped off coverings of non essential items and is charged with criminal damage and breaching coronavirus regulations. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/man-rips-supermarket-charged-police-19162142

I don't agree with what he did and from what I heard, he ripped into staff at Tesco, which is completely unacceptable in any circumstances. However, it does highlight how pathetic this non essential rule is that you can be charged for criminal damage and breaching coronavirus regulations for ripping off coverings of items.

Also, to pretty much show how incompetent we are (and to back up what I mentioned before), we may dip in and out of local lockdowns not just in the new year, but Walesonline reporting that it could continue 'until a vaccine has been found'. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/second-fire-break-wales-likely-19162353

Edited October 25, 2020 by Bluebird Hewitt

[Harry]

 

[Carnivore Chris]

6 hours ago, nudge said:

What they are doing in Wales is a complete madness and frankly, barely has anything to do with virus management anymore. Tape off "non-essential" aisles in supermarkets? Fucking hell. 

Since clothes aren't essential, this fella went shopping without any on. Great way to make a point

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Carnivore Chris

[Rucksackfranzose]

12 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Ironically, by blocking aisles, you're also confine people to certain areas and making social distancing a little harder (obviously the size of them negates it a little but you get the idea). 

In regards to alcohol, I have no issues with alcohol at all, but to say that clothes (which people generally need for warmth as a baseline) is non essential, but alcohol (which being realistic, we don't really need as a human need) is essential just makes Drakeford look more of a clown. 

Disagree. People in Wales are supposed to have enough clothes not to freeze to death, while cold turkey might be lethal for alcoholics.

[nudge+]

12 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

alcohol (which being realistic, we don't really need as a human need)

Well, as the basic human needs pyramid illustrates, you're clearly wrong! 

 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

24 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Disagree. People in Wales are supposed to have enough clothes not to freeze to death, while cold turkey might be lethal for alcoholics.

This post pretty much sums up the whole point of why Drakeford's decision on what is and isn't essential is ridiculous (not a dig at you in any way, Rucksackfranzose). As I mentioned before, what is essential to some will not be essential to others, as different people have different needs. 

To give a rough example of what I mean, here's a snippet of an article that I'll post a link to a bit further down. 

Drakeford has since come out and said that this will not be reversed (as heaven forbid he could ever make a mistake). However, to make this farcical even better, they're now saying that the rules 'may be tweaked', 'there is discretion within the rules' and that 'a review into how the rules were implemented would be held on Monday'. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54676457

Let's remind ourselves that supermarkets and other shops were not informed of what is essential (and can be sold) and what is non essential (what can't be sold) about 5 hours before the lockdown actually began (hence the whole covering up and blocking of aisles you've seen). 

When you have to review your very own rules after 2 of 17 days into a lockdown that you announced (and had leaked) a week ago, you've clearly fucked up. 

[Rucksackfranzose]

13 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

This post pretty much sums up the whole point of why Drakeford's decision on what is and isn't essential is ridiculous (not a dig at you in any way, Rucksackfranzose). As I mentioned before, what is essential to some will not be essential to others, as different people have different needs. 

To give a rough example of what I mean, here's a snippet of an article that I'll post a link to a bit further down. 

Drakeford has since come out and said that this will not be reversed (as heaven forbid he could ever make a mistake). However, to make this farcical even better, they're now saying that the rules 'may be tweaked', 'there is discretion within the rules' and that 'a review into how the rules were implemented would be held on Monday'. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54676457

Let's remind ourselves that supermarkets and other shops were not informed of what is essential (and can be sold) and what is non essential (what can't be sold) about 5 hours before the lockdown actually began (hence the whole covering up and blocking of aisles you've seen). 

When you have to review your very own rules after 2 of 17 days into a lockdown that you announced (and had leaked) a week ago, you've clearly fucked up. 

I fully agree on this implementation being ridiculous and of course you should think the government would have had enough time to define the term essential to inform the stores, what's included longer than in literally the last possible moment. And obviously common sense dictates that this definition has to be evaluated and adjusted if necessary.

Just wanted to point out that alcohol being essential can't be that easily denied as you did. ( That part of cold detoxification being potentially lethal for alcoholics wasn't made up.)

[LFCMike]

18 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Want more of a laugh? 

Man in North Wales ripped off coverings of non essential items and is charged with criminal damage and breaching coronavirus regulations. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/man-rips-supermarket-charged-police-19162142

I don't agree with what he did and from what I heard, he ripped into staff at Tesco, which is completely unacceptable in any circumstances. However, it does highlight how pathetic this non essential rule is that you can be charged for criminal damage and breaching coronavirus regulations for ripping off coverings of items.

Also, to pretty much show how incompetent we are (and to back up what I mentioned before), we may dip in and out of local lockdowns not just in the new year, but Walesonline reporting that it could continue 'until a vaccine has been found'. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/second-fire-break-wales-likely-19162353

Do you not have to wear a face covering in shops in Wales?

[DeadLinesman]

18 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Want more of a laugh? 

Man in North Wales ripped off coverings of non essential items and is charged with criminal damage and breaching coronavirus regulations. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/man-rips-supermarket-charged-police-19162142

I don't agree with what he did and from what I heard, he ripped into staff at Tesco, which is completely unacceptable in any circumstances. However, it does highlight how pathetic this non essential rule is that you can be charged for criminal damage and breaching coronavirus regulations for ripping off coverings of items.

Also, to pretty much show how incompetent we are (and to back up what I mentioned before), we may dip in and out of local lockdowns not just in the new year, but Walesonline reporting that it could continue 'until a vaccine has been found'. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/second-fire-break-wales-likely-19162353

Whilst I agree with his sentiment, the bloke is just being a bellend for the sake of 5 minutes internet fame and it’s totally backfired on him. ‘Look at me! I’ll get my mates to film me ripping all the stuff because I’m well hard and people will love me’. 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

8 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

I fully agree on this implementation being ridiculous and of course you should think the government would have had enough time to define the term essential to inform the stores, what's included longer than in literally the last possible moment. And obviously common sense dictates that this definition has to be evaluated and adjusted if necessary.

Just wanted to point out that alcohol being essential can't be that easily denied as you did. ( That part of cold detoxification being potentially lethal for alcoholics wasn't made up.)

Fair point you made and I admittedly didn't think that. I was thinking more of a generalisation with the example. 

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

Do you not have to wear a face covering in shops in Wales?

Yep. Face masks were made mandatory last month and must be worn in shops and public transport.

47 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Whilst I agree with his sentiment, the bloke is just being a bellend for the sake of 5 minutes internet fame and it’s totally backfired on him. ‘Look at me! I’ll get my mates to film me ripping all the stuff because I’m well hard and people will love me’. 

Yeah, I agree with that really. Think what you like with these restrictions but you don't need to be a bellend over it. 

[LFCMike]

10 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

 

Yep. Face masks were made mandatory last month and must be worn in shops and public transport.

 

So this dickhead in the shop ripping stuff down is just part of the problem then

[DeadLinesman]

17 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Fair point you made and I admittedly didn't think that. I was thinking more of a generalisation with the example. 

Yep. Face masks were made mandatory last month and must be worn in shops and public transport.

Yeah, I agree with that really. Think what you like with these restrictions but you don't need to be a bellend over it. 

 

6 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

So this dickhead in the shop ripping stuff down is just part of the problem then

Exactly. These guy makes absolutely no difference to the cause when people are trying to explain how stupid some of the rules are. We were struggling to buy newborn grows at one point early on in the pandemic and like you say, surely clothing is essential for people? Kids keep growing, you need socks, boxers etc. Common sense needs to prevail, but this dickhead is not a part of that.

[Panflute]

We might go into full lockdown as well seeing as journos have been pushing for it in the past weeks by aSkiNg QuEsTiOnS. Critics say such a measure will only be effective if it is kept up for months, possibly until the spring.

Fun times ahead in any case.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

So this dickhead in the shop ripping stuff down is just part of the problem then

Pretty much. As I mentioned to DeadLinesman above, we can say what we like about it but you don't act like what that guy did over it. 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

4 hours ago, Panflute said:

We might go into full lockdown as well seeing as journos have been pushing for it in the past weeks by aSkiNg QuEsTiOnS. Critics say such a measure will only be effective if it is kept up for months, possibly until the spring.

Fun times ahead in any case.

That sucks. I'm not clued up on other countries but how are the Netherlands generally coping (ie. is the full lockdown required, is it an over reaction etc)? 

Also (and I can't believe I'm going to post this) :

Woman: Excuse me, could I buy some period products please? 

Tesco: Nah love. The Welsh Government told us not to sell these items as they're non essential. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54685886

EDIT: I will stop as I realise that I've taken up the last page or two, but as a final bit for anyone wanting to understand the quality of Walesonline's proofreading, they did an article with Tesco in St. Mellons explaining why the sanitary aisle was cordoned off. It was apparently due to a break in that the police confirmed. 

I'm not 100% sure whether the break in has already happened or whether the break in is currently taking place as of this current time (3:50pm).

Edited October 26, 2020 by Bluebird Hewitt

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 hours ago, nudge said:

Well, as the basic human needs pyramid illustrates, you're clearly wrong! 

 

This pyramid is the most accurate thing I've ever seen in my life

[Bluewolf]

They really have messed up with this ban on essential products in Wales... Apart from the stuff already mentioned above They are also saying that books are banned but magazines are ok , tights are banned but socks are ok... 

On the plus side @Bluebird Hewitt I hear the Welsh Police managed to catch one family trying to sneak into Wales from a restricted zone and were turned back yesterday... I believe they were caught trying to sneak non essential contraband across the border... Apparently they were all wearing clothes for the journey 

[Panflute]

21 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

That sucks. I'm not clued up on other countries but how are the Netherlands generally coping (ie. is the full lockdown required, is it an over reaction etc)? 

It's pretty fucked now. We have had rising infection rates, but people have pretty much gone into panic mode, where like 3 days after new measures, everyone starts calling for more measures even though it's impossible to notice the effect of the original measures within that timespan.

If we were to go into full lockdown, it would be the first time this happens in the country, as the previous 'lockdown' and the current one have both been partial lockdowns, where much of the measures were based on advice rather than strict legislation. Still, I don't think it will ever be in countries like France and Italy where you basically have martial law.

However, as it looks now, it seems as if the full lockdown is not being considered by our government, which, to its credit, doesn't often cave to the pressure of taking extra measures just because people are panicking. The issue with a full lockdown now is that it would just postpone the problem a few months at best, and wreck tons of businesses in the process. The past months have shown that our testing has not proven adequate enough to be able to handle subsequent infections locally, so this would mean having to lock the country down periodically until there is a vaccine, which is obviously bonkers.

I dunno about this shit anymore. When I see people out there walking by themselves in parks while wearing mouth masks, I get the idea that a lot of this is just about giving ourselves the illusion that we're able to control the virus.

[Panflute]

As I have said earlier, all this virus does is revert countries to their basic essence.

• Holland has reverted to finding compromises for everything (polder model)
• The US has reverted to its usual dose of crazy paired with societal division
• France has reverted to its leader getting to roleplay as a firm Napoleonic statesman over the backs of his countrymen
• Italy and Spain have reverted to criticizing us for 'mishandling' the crisis and then asking us for free hand-outs as the bodies pile up and their entire economies inevitably collapse at the slightest setback

It's depressing.

[The Artful Dodger]

18 minutes ago, Panflute said:

It's pretty fucked now. We have had rising infection rates, but people have pretty much gone into panic mode, where like 3 days after new measures, everyone starts calling for more measures even though it's impossible to notice the effect of the original measures within that timespan.

If we were to go into full lockdown, it would be the first time this happens in the country, as the previous 'lockdown' and the current one have both been partial lockdowns, where much of the measures were based on advice rather than strict legislation. Still, I don't think it will ever be in countries like France and Italy where you basically have martial law.

However, as it looks now, it seems as if the full lockdown is not being considered by our government, which, to its credit, doesn't often cave to the pressure of taking extra measures just because people are panicking. The issue with a full lockdown now is that it would just postpone the problem a few months at best, and wreck tons of businesses in the process. The past months have shown that our testing has not proven adequate enough to be able to handle subsequent infections locally, so this would mean having to lock the country down periodically until there is a vaccine, which is obviously bonkers.

I dunno about this shit anymore. When I see people out there walking by themselves in parks while wearing mouth masks, I get the idea that a lot of this is just about giving ourselves the illusion that we're able to control the virus.

Your last paragraph sums up how I feel. This is all about making ourselves feel like we can control something uncontrollable. It’s telling that it is us in the West who having the hardest time with this. We are used to having everything under control, this is something we are not used to. A reminder that the world is not subject to us and that there are dangers out there.

 

[tlr]

Bristol in talks to move into 'Tier 1 Plus'. About as straightforward as nuclear physics is this simplification.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

1 hour ago, tlr said:

Bristol in talks to move into 'Tier 1 Plus'. About as straightforward as nuclear physics is this simplification.

What? 

I thought it was Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 for all of England now? 

Fair play, no one wants to make this nice and simple. 

[Danny]

I live in Ealing Borough and we have the largest rates of transmission in London, 227 per 100,000 as of 19/10-25/10. 
 

It’s difficult in London because you simply can’t just put lockdown restrictions on one borough, everything’s so interconnected that it’d make no sense. I do wonder how many boroughs would be needed to put the city in tier 3