Off Topic

[Burning Gold]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

UK Electorate - 46 million

Voter turnout - 33 million

I don't buy the 'it won't make a difference' rhetoric.

A million people ( could obviously be more) out of that 13 million who didn't turn out could have had the same view as you - 'it doesn't make a difference'.

Guaranteed it would have made some kind of difference if even half of those 13 million fancied voting. 

Also, what do you mean 'so what?'  Have you seen the state of the UK's politics right now - it was shite to start with anyway but Brexit and the referendum vote has been a huge catalyst for the way it is right now. It's an absolute shit-storm, a clusterfuck of massive proportions and the Brexit vote has a lot to do with that.

Sure, but me popping down to the polling station doesn't make them any more likely to do so. I can only control whether or not I vote.

And it's not guaranteed it would've made a difference. That would only happen if those extra voters would've voted differently to the rest of the country as a whole, which is possible, but I see no reason to believe it would be the case. This referedum is a rare case though. In a general election, it's even more unlikely that non-voters could've made a difference as they're likely to be distributed across various constituencies - mostly safe seats.

[Stan]

Just now, Burning Gold said:

Sure, but me popping down to the polling station doesn't make them any more likely to do so. I can only control whether or not I vote.

And it's not guaranteed it would've made a difference. That would only happen if those extra voters would've voted differently to the rest of the country as a whole, which is possible, but I see no reason to believe it would be the case. This referedum is a rare case though. In a general election, it's even more unlikely that non-voters could've made a difference as they're likely to be distributed across various constituencies - mostly safe seats.

I agree about the GE where people are less likely to vote, but referendum was a totally different matter. 

It just frustrates me that people didn't vote in the referendum - like you, I can't control other people and couldn't force them to vote. But I'm of the mind that decades ago people literally fought for the right to vote and people aren't willing to use that right and prerogative to do so. 

13 million people being able to vote, and not doing so, is a very large amount which could have influenced the result. 

[RandoEFC+]

Here's a question - should someone have to demonstrate a certain understanding of what they're voting for before they are allowed to cast their vote?

I'm not calling for that to be the case. I'm of the opinion that it is firmly the responsibility of the candidates and campaigners, along with the media to an extent, to educate the electorate accurately ahead of a general election or a referendum.

I've said many times in the past that we don't do enough in schools to educate young people about the importance of politics and the impact it has on their lives, and that is part of the problem. I've also heard some people mutter half seriously that you should have to pass a sort of aptitude test before you vote to make sure that you actually understand a thing or two about your options rather than just voting for the better public speaker or what will lead to a reduction in evil immigrants in your neighbourhood.

I think that's draconian and a violation of free speech myself though an ill informed electorate is clearly a problem for a country, and it's probably similar in the majority of democratic countries across the world. What is the solution? And is an apathetic section of the electorate part of the same problem or an entirely different problem altogether?

[Stan]

The responsibility lies with the candidates/campaigners to promote their own party and 'educate' their own policies as opposed to what Brexit became i.e. a slanging match and just a lot of lies bandied about each other's party - bordering on offensive, abusive, insulting etc etc. The media have a big part of the blame there though - they became volatile and created an environment to be just that. 

I agree about the schooling - I don't remember ever getting taught about importance of my vote and what I could be voting for at the time. Unless you're gonna do a politics course at A-Level/Uni then I doubt you'll know complex intricacies of government and the way policies effect society and the country (or learnt it outside of school). 

Not sure I agree too much about the aptitude test - I think you'd end up eliminate a lot of voters even though they'll be living in a place where some policies really have an effect i.e. high population of students in an area may want to know what their life will be like in terms of fees for uni - if they fail the aptitude test, how can they have a vote on their future? That's just one loose example though. 

 

[Burning Gold]

3 hours ago, Stan said:

I agree about the GE where people are less likely to vote, but referendum was a totally different matter. 

It just frustrates me that people didn't vote in the referendum - like you, I can't control other people and couldn't force them to vote. But I'm of the mind that decades ago people literally fought for the right to vote and people aren't willing to use that right and prerogative to do so. 

13 million people being able to vote, and not doing so, is a very large amount which could have influenced the result. 

True, but I feel like I'd be doing them a disservice if I used that vote to elect either Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May.

I agree with you on the referendum, though. I don't really understand how someone wouldn't have a preference in a yes/no question. Unless they decided it wasn't worth their time trying to wade through the smears and misinformation to make an informed decision, particularly when (as discussed) their individual vote wouldn't make a difference anyway.

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Here's a question - should someone have to demonstrate a certain understanding of what they're voting for before they are allowed to cast their vote?

I'm not calling for that to be the case. I'm of the opinion that it is firmly the responsibility of the candidates and campaigners, along with the media to an extent, to educate the electorate accurately ahead of a general election or a referendum.

I've said many times in the past that we don't do enough in schools to educate young people about the importance of politics and the impact it has on their lives, and that is part of the problem. I've also heard some people mutter half seriously that you should have to pass a sort of aptitude test before you vote to make sure that you actually understand a thing or two about your options rather than just voting for the better public speaker or what will lead to a reduction in evil immigrants in your neighbourhood.

I think that's draconian and a violation of free speech myself though an ill informed electorate is clearly a problem for a country, and it's probably similar in the majority of democratic countries across the world. What is the solution? And is an apathetic section of the electorate part of the same problem or an entirely different problem altogether?

Someone I used to work with had this idea he thought was brilliant. Everyone gets one vote, but if you could demonstrate some intelligence and an understanding of the issues, you'd get another one or two votes. That way the informed would have more of a say, but you wouldn't deprive anyone of their right to vote.

I think both are bad ideas, to be honest, both on principle and in practice. You'd be neutralising an entire sector of the electorate and of course the criteria for voting would be very tempting targets for abuse and corruption.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Burning Gold said:

True, but I feel like I'd be doing them a disservice if I used that vote to elect either Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May.

I agree with you on the referendum, though. I don't really understand how someone wouldn't have a preference in a yes/no question. Unless they decided it wasn't worth their time trying to wade through the smears and misinformation to make an informed decision, particularly when (as discussed) their individual vote wouldn't make a difference anyway

I'll give you that one. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils I guess. For me that's Corbyn.

May is so incompetent. She doesn't scream out to you any authority or presence, even confidence. 

[Spike]

I'm so bored I might just kill myself.

[Azeem]

I've been drinking too much tea lately.

Sometimes i eat only breakfast during the whole day and 5-6 cups of tea.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Devon Von Devon

[Honey Honey]

2 hours ago, Devon Von Devon said:

I've been drinking too much tea lately.

Sometimes i eat only breakfast during the whole day and 5-6 cups of tea.

You must piss like a horse

[Azeem]

59 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

You must piss like a horse

Just the other there were two split streams coming out like a snakes tongue 

[Azeem]

I have been never so hopeful in my life before.....

Edited July 28, 2018 by Devon Von Devon

[Bluebird Hewitt]

On 23/07/2018 at 15:38, Burning Gold said:

I don't necessarily agree with Cannabis, but I definitely sympathise with his point of view. I've voted in every general election since I turned 18, but did my vote make the slightest difference? No. I live in a very safe seat and I assume he's the same. My vote literally does not matter. 

This is pretty much the same with me as well, especially as where I am is a damn near guaranteed Labour win and a guaranteed Welsh Labour Government at the end of it. I do 'vote' (and by that I mean spoiling it), but it makes absolutely no difference who I would have voted for anyway.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The glass window at my office just fucking shattered shortly after a bird smacked into it and I laughed my arse off at it. Now there's fucking glass everywhere.

Doesn't really inspire much confidence in the quality of these glass panes surrounding me.

[Stan]

This is so true

 

[Danny]

What I'd say with voting is even if you don't want to vote for one of the main two parties, either spoil your vote or vote for an alternative party as a protest. Politicians won't come after your vote if they know it's not there. It's all well and good saying nothing will change but it won't if you don't even use it.

[Toinho]

24 minutes ago, Danny said:

What I'd say with voting is even if you don't want to vote for one of the main two parties, either spoil your vote or vote for an alternative party as a protest. Politicians won't come after your vote if they know it's not there. It's all well and good saying nothing will change but it won't if you don't even use it.

I never vote for the main parties. Scumbags. 

[Bluewolf]

I think it should be against the law to have your kids still living with you after the age of 20

[Stan]

46 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

I think it should be against the law to have your kids still living with you after the age of 20

 

what have yours done now?

if house prices or rent prices were lower then I think you'd get a lot of people moving out earlier. But it's the wiser thing to do financially to save while you can when living with parents and then move out with a hefty deposit whenever available  

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

 

what have yours done now?

if house prices or rent prices were lower then I think you'd get a lot of people moving out earlier. But it's the wiser thing to do financially to save while you can when living with parents and then move out with a hefty deposit whenever available  

That's part of the problem though isn't it.. Youngsters these days really struggle to get a foothold on property so as you say you try to do them a favour by allowing them to stay home longer to save etc but there comes a point where I need to see some movement happening.. I love my family but everyone needs some breathing space or it all starts to get a bit much after a while.. 

In my mind I just saw a repeat cycle for my kids of when I was younger... Go out to work, save as much as you can while living at home, take that money and get yourself set up somewhere and let the journey begin... The reality however has turned out to be way off the mark.. Part of the problem for me anyway is that after staying up in Notts for a couple of years I now have a fond appreciation for serenity and the absence of stress

Just feel like this a lot of the time... 

Takes a lot to push my buttons and sometimes you just feel like exploding.. 

[Burning Gold]

11 hours ago, Danny said:

What I'd say with voting is even if you don't want to vote for one of the main two parties, either spoil your vote or vote for an alternative party as a protest. Politicians won't come after your vote if they know it's not there. It's all well and good saying nothing will change but it won't if you don't even use it.

I don't think that's necessarily true. For the last 20-25 years, the youth turnout has always been low in the UK, but Corbyn still appealed heavily (and successfully) to young people.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

That's part of the problem though isn't it.. Youngsters these days really struggle to get a foothold on property so as you say you try to do them a favour by allowing them to stay home longer to save etc but there comes a point where I need to see some movement happening.. I love my family but everyone needs some breathing space or it all starts to get a bit much after a while.. 

In my mind I just saw a repeat cycle for my kids of when I was younger... Go out to work, save as much as you can while living at home, take that money and get yourself set up somewhere and let the journey begin... The reality however has turned out to be way off the mark.. Part of the problem for me anyway is that after staying up in Notts for a couple of years I now have a fond appreciation for serenity and the absence of stress

Just feel like this a lot of the time... 

Takes a lot to push my buttons and sometimes you just feel like exploding.. 

yeah I totally get that. Moving out 3 years ago was one of the best decisions I made and also for my parents who helped me in the process. At least I'm on the property ladder now but the next step which I'm looking to do is to move back home, rent my flat out and use that to pay my mortgage while I try and save some more to get a house/get married. 

But with house prices as they are now, even for where I live, it feels like the light at the end of the tunnel is just a mere dot which isn't getting any bigger.

[Spike]

17 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The glass window at my office just fucking shattered shortly after a bird smacked into it and I laughed my arse off at it. Now there's fucking glass everywhere.

Doesn't really inspire much confidence in the quality of these glass panes surrounding me.

A while back a glass panel fell off the sideof a building in Chicago. The impact sliced a lady in half in front of her daughter. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

A while back a glass panel fell off the sideof a building in Chicago. The impact sliced a lady in half in front of her daughter. 

Holy fucking shit. 

[Spike]

A few days ago a friend of mind confided in me that they were sexually abused for half a decade. Feels bad, man. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Spike said:

A few days ago a friend of mind confided in me that they were sexually abused for half a decade. Feels bad, man. 

For the second time today in this thread, you're making me say this:

Holy fucking shit.

Was it his school teacher that did the abuse? How long ago was it? My uncle had a teacher that decades later was arrested for being a paedo - and it wasn't until that arrest that my uncle came forward about what happened with him and how he kept quiet about it for decades. And according to my dad, that teacher's nickname around the school was … "Paedo"... so it's not like the suspicions weren't there (or that it wasn't known); but it was decades after they were out of school that this bloke was caught. But I remember my Dad coming home from his brother's house... all the colour out of his skin (granted, he's pasty as fuck - but you know what I mean)... then sitting down with us kids and telling us what he'd been told and just being at a loss for words.

So yeah... I'm sure it does feel bad mate. Are you finding you keep thinking about what happened to them, regardless of how much you try not to think about it?