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John Stones

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Always liked him, I didnt respond much when many folks gave him stick during his transfer to city (especially for the transfer fee which is not under his control) but I thought he would do well under a good manager/coach like Pep. From whatever I have seen him he was good, especially on the ball but was error prone but with age I guess he will develop much better and will minimise his errors. Even defenders like Sergio Ramos who is considered one of the best (xD) is error prone at the age of 30+ with lots of experience so I always thought it was harsh with the criticism Stones received. 

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I've always been a fan, the next few years are important for his development though and he's either going to go one way or the other.

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Sometimes when players get taken out of the spotlight and are just left to play football things start to go well for them. I don't think it would be fair to expect him to hit the ground running but it looks like the manager has helped and hes doing well. 

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1 minute ago, Mel81x said:

Sometimes when players get taken out of the spotlight and are just left to play football things start to go well for them.  

This point is actually fantastic.... 

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In pep we trust.

Stones is more comfortable this season and more confident and it's showing.

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He's a very interesting player because he more than steps on the toes of the pragmatism which is prevalent in British football and I love him for that reason.

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For his reputation as an attacking manager, Guardiola does seem to bring CBs on leaps and bounds - Pique, Boateng and now Stones and even Otamendi.

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1 hour ago, carefreeluke said:

I've always been a fan, the next few years are important for his development though and he's either going to go one way or the other.

this, for me, too. 

Didn't understand just how much stick he used to get as sometimes whenever things went wrong it wasn't always his fault. Very capable defender and with teams wanting defenders who can actually play with the ball as opposed to constantly hoof it, he's definitely a good choice. Can't wait til no-one can get past him and Maguire for England. 

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Not for me thanks. He is still a blooper waiting to happen. He is very much a Pep defender, but for me you would not see a picture of John Stones next to the word Defender in a dictionary.....EVER

It helps City  are on Fire this season..... very much like this seasons crisis players at Chelsea, last season.

When you evaluate players you have to remember when they were under pressure and Stones is very funny under pressure & nothing he has done this season has me thinking otherwise.

Still, each to their own. I am sure I will be back in this thread before Christmas  :ay:

 

Footnote:

Bailly FFS  :dam:

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Has a lot less defending to do. In those circumstances, a defender that doesn't like defending is bound to do better.

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2 hours ago, Kitchen Sales said:

It helps that the opposition have 15-25% possession xD

Tbf City had loads of possession last season too.

And some defenders actually thrive in teams where they're under the cosh half the time and have to clear 20 crosses per game, and then struggle more when they're on top and are inactive for long periods interspersed with just a few counterattacks to deal with. 

Edited by Inverted

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He probably is improving and he was very good when he broke through at Everton so given the fact he was already decent and they paid £50m for him before that became bog standard you'd hope he could hold his own now in a team that wins every game 5-0. 

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You could stick me at CB in this City side and I’d do absolutely fine. 

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24 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Tbf City had loads of possession last season too.

And some defenders actually thrive in teams where they're under the cosh half the time and half to clear 20 crosses per game, and then struggle more when they're on top and are inactive for long periods interspersed with just a few counterattacks to deal with. 

This is true with some defenders and keepers too. They look great in sides where they're under threat for most of the game, but once they're in a side that has the ball most of the time they let their concentration down and suddenly become dogshite.

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He is doing well and deserves credit. Confidence is a wonderful thing. Not really having the possession thing because City dominated possession in the majority of games last season but teams had a habit of scoring with very minimal attempts which I think was very psychological. And I think removing that joker Bravo has been a big help. He didn't help matters last season, they couldn't trust him but Ederson is a far better upgrade.

But Otamendi has been up there as well, if not, better. I've been very impressed with him and because of how solid he and Fernandinho have been, it's given Stones more confidence to play his game how he'd like.

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3 hours ago, Inverted said:

For his reputation as an attacking manager, Guardiola does seem to bring CBs on leaps and bounds - Pique, Boateng and now Stones and even Otamendi.

he did wonders for kimmich too

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I guess we have to get some facts in here then to prove that Man City's possession is a statistically significant variable this season :ph34r:

Man City's opponents possession this season on the left, last season on the right

West Brom - 22% / 30% - 7 minutes less defending

Burnley - 23% / 45% - 18 minutes less defending

Stoke City - 21% / 35% - 12 minutes less defending

Chelsea - 38% / 39% 

Crystal Palace - 28% / 31%

Watford - 33% / 33%

Liverpool - 34% / 41% - 6 minutes less defending

Bournemouth 30% - / 38% - 7 minutes less defending

Everton 35% / 27%

Brighton/Middlesbrough 22%/ 32% - 9 minutes less defending

West Ham 30% / 33%

 

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22 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

I guess we have to get some facts in here then to prove that Man City's possession is a statistically significant variable this season :ph34r:

Man City's opponents possession this season on the left, last season on the right

West Brom - 22% / 30% - 7 minutes less defending

Burnley - 23% / 45% - 18 minutes less defending

Stoke City - 21% / 35% - 12 minutes less defending

Chelsea - 38% / 39% 

Crystal Palace - 28% / 31%

Watford - 33% / 33%

Liverpool - 34% / 41% - 6 minutes less defending

Bournemouth 30% - / 38% - 7 minutes less defending

Everton 35% / 27%

Brighton/Middlesbrough 22%/ 32% - 9 minutes less defending

West Ham 30% / 33%

 

Sorry Mr. Sales you are going to take the brunt of this as you posted stats.

Stats are produced by people who have no gut feeling for the game of football and on the whole, little understanding of being able to evaluate a match team or player by their own eyes & experience. There is more value in someones opinion who is without help from someone programed to count touches tackles or goals.

Many believe stats prove their points beyond doubt, but as one clever so n so once said, stats can be produced to prove anything you desire to the weak minded.

I humbly suggest all fans of this sport make their own mind up on evaluation using their own opinion from watching the games. A great way to start is to watch Sky/BT games without the sound so you are not lead by muppet Neville or its a confidence thing Keown or listen to the panel before, half time or after.

City are playing exactly like they did last season at this time. It's that simple. No need for stats to prove that. The evidence is there each game. What we all need to see is, are the new players they brought in going to be the difference so they continue for the season in this vein? Because if they do, John Stones has every chance of being protected\hidden till May 18. :ay:

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2 hours ago, The Liquidator said:

Sorry Mr. Sales you are going to take the brunt of this as you posted stats.

Stats are produced by people who have no gut feeling for the game of football and on the whole, little understanding of being able to evaluate a match team or player by their own eyes & experience. There is more value in someones opinion who is without help from someone programed to count touches tackles or goals.

Many believe stats prove their points beyond doubt, but as one clever so n so once said, stats can be produced to prove anything you desire to the weak minded.

I humbly suggest all fans of this sport make their own mind up on evaluation using their own opinion from watching the games. A great way to start is to watch Sky/BT games without the sound so you are not lead by muppet Neville or its a confidence thing Keown or listen to the panel before, half time or after.

City are playing exactly like they did last season at this time. It's that simple. No need for stats to prove that. The evidence is there each game. What we all need to see is, are the new players they brought in going to be the difference so they continue for the season in this vein? Because if they do, John Stones has every chance of being protected\hidden till May 18. :ay:

I disagree with a chunk of that and think that the factually incorrect assumption that Man City's possession is the same as last season proves that statistics can have an important role in correcting errors in our own guesswork. 

Now that people have the correct information they can disagree with my initial opinion that increased possession is a helpful factor for Stones improving, including for his confidence, by using other arguments, as the first argument against it was that possession hasn't changed, which has been debunked, proving the value of statistics.

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From what I've watched of him he's been very impressive but also intelligent, reads play well and knows when to cut off the passage for a pass rather than just charge the defender.

Statistics are very important when it comes to analysing football matches, you just have to know how you're using them. The normal use of statistics is i.e. possession is of little use to anyone but Harvey's stats help paint a picture, I can guarantee that if you were to compare City's stats to last season you'd not only find that they have more of the ball, you'd probably find they're creating more expected goal shots, more passes into the opponents area and the creation of chances from overloading one side of the pitch to score on the other is higher. 

Though one thing I would agree with about the use of stats, you don't need them to see that the side this season is superior to the side they had last season.

Edited by Danny

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You have too remember he's still very young AND he's far more exposed in our all out attacking style, because of this approach we get hit with counter attacks when it breaks down and normally only have the 2 CB's in our half to deal with it as the full backs might as well be wingers, we have a lot of possession but when teams do get hold of the ball our CB's and keeper are under a lot of pressure, it's helped a lot that Ederson can make a save and is a sweeper keeper giving us another player to shut them long balls down

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He's in the perfect side. Wouldn't be one bit surprised if he ended up making a howler for England in the World Cup yet has a near flawless campaign with Man City. The difference in coaching.

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14 hours ago, Kitchen Sales said:

I disagree with a chunk of that and think that the factually incorrect assumption that Man City's possession is the same as last season proves that statistics can have an important role in correcting errors in our own guesswork. 

Now that people have the correct information they can disagree with my initial opinion that increased possession is a helpful factor for Stones improving, including for his confidence, by using other arguments, as the first argument against it was that possession hasn't changed, which has been debunked, proving the value of statistics.

How is it the correct info? What were the standard of the teams they played at the start of last season compared who they have played this? BOOM

Your stats are sunk

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All about a matter of form. Cahill also looks good when the entire team is functioning. 

I still rate Stones better than any other current English CB, but let's see if he, and the entire defence, remain this solidity when City's attack finally runs out of steam. 

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