LFCMadLad Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stan said: Goes to show how good he was, if anything. Still don't think Van Dijk can be compared to him based on 18 months of being a good player for Liverpool. Compared to Maldini's 20+ year career... I've not really got an opinion on it to be honest. It's hard to compare them really. All I know is that VVD is the best CB in the world by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnisExcubitor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 One of the best qualities of good players is making the players around them better. Van Dijk does that. His organisational skills are top class. His reading of the game is brilliant as well. At present he is rightly recognised as the best in the world. But for him to be deemed great, he needs to do this for three-four years at least and win some trophies as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreeluke Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I think something about Virgil that makes him stand out is so much of his defensive game isn't around making tackles, which you'd traditionally except from a centrehalf - if you look at the stats, he really doesn't make that many tackles compared to others in his position. His game is based around his reading the game and making interceptions instead of making tackles. In the case of our recent league match against Tottenham, there was when he was the last man before Alisson in a 2-on-1 and he blocks off the pass Sissoko could have made to Son (who likely would have scored) and instead forces Sissoko, famously shite at shooting, to take a shot. That's excellent defending and he dictated that shit shot from Sissoko. You're right that defending is more reactive than attacking, but there are different a defender can react that dictates how that moment of the match will play out. You can argue the same thing with attackers and needing the right partners/styles to succeed, to be honest. I think unlike Bonucci, for example, Van Dijk looked class at Celtic, looked class at Southampton (til we turned his fucking head, sorry Southampton), and looks class with us - and he performs for Holland at the back as well. That to me is more akin to players like Maldini (who like I said, is a bit different because he started as a fullback - but his whole career for Milan and for Italy he was class) or Nesta (brilliant for Lazio and Milan and Italy). So I think you can order that Bonucci is a class player in the right system, but once he had to adapt to a new system he was shite... whereas with the defenders I think you could classify as "world class" they seem to manage to get it done wherever they are (it's a bit harder for Maldini, because he was only at Milan... but then there's the fact he had to adapt to CB). It's hard to really gauge different eras though. Tactics have changed, players are more athletic, we see attacking sides defend more by simply keeping the ball - so defenders need more than just their "traditional" defensive skillsets for sides like Liverpool, City, Barca, etc... they've got to be comfortable on the ball as well as defensively sound. For modern football, there's no other CB I'd rather have and I am delighted that he's at our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Van Dijk has been great in all the levels he played, I remember as far back as Groningen, he was starting off but you could see he had all the attributes to become a World Class defender and I always wanted Ajax to sign him. The season he left Groningen he was one of the best defenders in the Eredivisie, Ajax and PSV nearly signed him but he choose to join Celtic, his reasons to join Celtic was that he felt he would have more of a big chance to move to England quicker if he played in Scotland. In Scotland he was clearly the best player in that division, he even was set piece taker, an attacking defender who would dribble the ball out and score a lot of goals from all kind of plays, he was on another level to that division. In the Premiership again he has just grown to different levels every season and still I think he can get better. Comparing defenders to past ones is always hard as the style of play has changed so much, the game is so much faster now that you have lost the type of strikers you had in the 80's and 90's to defend against. In today's game with the pace it is harder to defend and Van Dijk is the best defender in today's football as he has everything, strength, awareness, reads the game so well, distribution is amazing, leadership and always manages to find an extra burst of pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Boots it in the stand when under pressure. Another Carragher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ Posted June 4, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 4, 2019 When Southampton signed him i was surprised nobody else signed him. Any time i've ever seen him i don't think he's looked bad. It makes that 75m fee look like an absolutely amazing deal. Him and Allison together have completely changed that team. He is without doubt the best defender in the world. He's shown it consistently for long enough to be recognized as the stand alone best defender in the world. For him to go down as one of the all time great centre backs he needs to keep doing it consistently for another few years. If Klopp stays and that team stay together, TAA, Gomez, Allison, Robertson etc then i can see that happening. Liverpool's back 5 really is something to be admired, probably the best back 5 in the world? Makes me happy that at least 2 of those are English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Stan said: Goes to show how good he was, if anything. Still don't think Van Dijk can be compared to him based on 18 months of being a good player for Liverpool. Compared to Maldini's 20+ year career... How did we get to a Maldini comparison? 2 hours ago, IgnisExcubitor said: One of the best qualities of good players is making the players around them better. Van Dijk does that. His organisational skills are top class. His reading of the game is brilliant as well. At present he is rightly recognised as the best in the world. But for him to be deemed great, he needs to do this for three-four years at least and win some trophies as well. He's an excellent defender. He's also very marketable which I think is leading to a bit of inflation in the plaudits that are coming his way right now but who the fuck cares! He's a top CB in the world right now. But talking all time shit is absurd. Most of the great CBs dominated for a decade or more, win multiple league and European titles and captained their club and country. Hopefully hes got all that in front of him at Liverpool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, JOSHBRFC said: When Southampton signed him i was surprised nobody else signed him. Any time i've ever seen him i don't think he's looked bad. It makes that 75m fee look like an absolutely amazing deal. Him and Allison together have completely changed that team. He is without doubt the best defender in the world. He's shown it consistently for long enough to be recognized as the stand alone best defender in the world. For him to go down as one of the all time great centre backs he needs to keep doing it consistently for another few years. If Klopp stays and that team stay together, TAA, Gomez, Allison, Robertson etc then i can see that happening. Liverpool's back 5 really is something to be admired, probably the best back 5 in the world? Makes me happy that at least 2 of those are English. Great post. I'm really excited by Gomez but a bit worried by another injury setback. I'm just not sure we can count on him to be consistently fit and wonder should we develop a different plan A over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 This era of football is faster paced and more fluid than any other time I cant think of since I've been watching, which I imagine makes it something of a nightmare for defenders. Van Dijk nonetheless seemingly strolls through most games looking absolutely unbeatable, and does so in every sort of scenario. He's a brilliant last-ditch defender who commands his box and calms his team, and also a perfect defender for a high line since there are only a handful of forwards in the world who are gong to beat him in a foot race. And he's extremely calm in possession. If you wanted to build a centre back for this era of football, you'd basically end up with something not far off of Van Dijk. If anything, he's been consistently underrated. When he strolled through games in Scotland, people said it was just the quality of the league. He's playing basically the same way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted June 4, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 4, 2019 I don't think he eclipses the greats yet simply because of how long a lot of them did it for, but I do think he's capable of becoming one, he's the most influential defender I can remember properly. I honestly can't remember a centre half I like watching more than him. Just absolutely class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted June 4, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, Inverted said: This era of football is faster paced and more fluid than any other time I cant think of since I've been watching, which I imagine makes it something of a nightmare for defenders. Van Dijk nonetheless seemingly strolls through most games looking absolutely unbeatable, and does so in every sort of scenario. He's a brilliant last-ditch defender who commands his box and calms his team, and also a perfect defender for a high line since there are only a handful of forwards in the world who are gong to beat him in a foot race. And he's extremely calm in possession. If you wanted to build a centre back for this era of football, you'd basically end up with something not far off of Van Dijk. If anything, he's been consistently underrated. When he strolled through games in Scotland, people said it was just the quality of the league. He's playing basically the same way now. I thought Son had done him the other day in the final, looked like he'd beaten van Dijk but he just recovers it and puts it out for a corner with seeming ease. It's no exaggeration to say he's made a defence that was Liverpool's achilles heel into probably the best unit in the world. I really think he's that good. I think he should be in serious contention for the Ballon D'or. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dan said: I thought Son had done him the other day in the final, looked like he'd beaten van Dijk but he just recovers it and puts it out for a corner with seeming ease. It's no exaggeration to say he's made a defence that was Liverpool's achilles heel into probably the best unit in the world. I really think he's that good. I think he should be in serious contention for the Ballon D'or. The funny thing about Van Dijk is that you can watch him consistently for about 7 years, and you're still not sure if you've ever really seen him at full exertion. There always seems to be an extra gear he can shift into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Reading this thread has me appreciating this big beautiful bastard even more. Best defender in the world, that's not even debateable for me. He's got some way to go before he can be labelled one of the greats but he's at a great age so it's more than possible. Hopefully that's with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 One of the biggest call's Liverpool had to make was going that extra bit of wonga to take him from Man City. And it's proved genius. I wonder if City had their time again, whether they would have just stumped up the extra 10-15m for Van Dijk. He was so close to joining them but City thought Southampton were taking the piss. Whilst they quibbled, Liverpool swooped in and sealed the deal. I bet they would have signed him if they knew the impact he was going to have for Liverpool now. Without him they would be a different kettle of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted June 8, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 8, 2019 He's actually now favourite to win the Ballon D'or. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 If he continues for another 2-3 years you have to take your hat off. Only thing he did wrong was give the penalty away vs City. The guy has been left alone vs 2 players charging in at goal and he has read what they were going to do. Awesome season, performed in the league, CL and for his country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 58 minutes ago, Dan said: He's actually now favourite to win the Ballon D'or. I think that's reasonable given the level of attention he's received and now having win the Champions league, beating Messi's Barca on the way to getting there. Messi's had a year though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Another year Messi hits 50 plus goals and not the favorite. A victim of his own greatness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted June 8, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 8, 2019 Messi for me and even VVD said the same. Virgil van Dijk now favourite to win Ballon d'Or In van Dijk's own words, he still believes Lionel Messi deserves the award, even if Barcelona did crash out of the Champions League at the hands of the Reds in the semi-finals. The centre back, speaking before the final in Madrid, said: "I think Lionel Messi is the best player in the world. He should win the Ballon d'Or." https://www.joe.co.uk/football/virgil-van-dijk-now-favourite-to-win-2019-ballon-dor-234315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Very much depends on Copa America, if Messi plays well and they get to the final/win it then he'll definitely win it. If he under performs again I think he'll lose out, and to be honest I wouldn't be able to argue against it. Messi is the best player by a mile but there's something really wrong when he plays for Argentina nowadays and I think it might be an emotional/mental thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 8, 2019 Subscriber Share Posted June 8, 2019 Best centre back in the world for the last 12 months at least. I think the comparisons to Maldini and Puyol need to wait until the end of his career as with all cross-era comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I don't think Puyol deserves comparison Maldini in terms of talent, that seems to be a fairly new thing. During his time he was never spoken about in such wondrous terms. However, when he broke that twatty celebration from the usual Barcelona twats against some two bit side, he entered the realm of gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Cicero said: Another year Messi hits 50 plus goals and not the favorite. A victim of his own greatness It's become near normal now for these high quality attacking players to be scoring close to a goal a game. Also he's the captain and seems to deserve some of the blame for Barcelona's lack of fight that saw them bow out of the CL to us. I do have bias here in that I'm so sick of seeing ronaldo and Messi win it I would basically never give either one the award again.... they would need to win a treble or a world cup for me to support them getting the award because what they do has become the norm and I've had enough of seeing it recognised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Not arsed to find it but when you get the chance look at chances created for all of the top leagues in Europe, and your jaw will drop when you see how far Messi is away from the 2nd rank person. As Maldini said, Messi should be winning this award every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 On 09/06/2019 at 10:55, Cicero said: Not arsed to find it but when you get the chance look at chances created for all of the top leagues in Europe, and your jaw will drop when you see how far Messi is away from the 2nd rank person. As Maldini said, Messi should be winning this award every year. I don't think any award should be that boring. Messi is a great player but there are many worthy of recognition each year. I'd also suggest if Messi truly was as great as deserving the award every year both Barcelona and Argentina should have won a shit ton more silverware. Argentina have won nothing at all, and Barcelona despite being an incredibly strong side continue to wilt under serious challenge year after year. That's also me believing the player most influential in the winning of footballs greatest team prizes should generally be the frontrunner for the individual award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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